Response to my Last Newsletter Editorial (23rd June issue)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chater-La
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First off, let's try to stay on topic here and not waste too much space on lols and banning predicaments.

Second, in my opinion, making it has very little to do with luck. Nothing happens out of thin air. It happens because of any combination of hard work and hard cash. And talent, has very little to do with it. Even those famous musicians back in the days who made it because someone saw them playing somewhere, still they worked hard to craft their skill to even be noticed. Nobody is dragged kicking and screaming into super stardom even someone like K.Cobain who hated the industry but dreamed about being 'on a plane'.
 
music for video games, music for movies, music for weddings and funerals, music for the bars, music in the parks, music at festivals, music at halftime. There is still hope.
 
First off, let's try to stay on topic here and not waste too much space on lols and banning predicaments.

Second, in my opinion, making it has very little to do with luck. Nothing happens out of thin air. It happens because of any combination of hard work and hard cash. And talent, has very little to do with it. Even those famous musicians back in the days who made it because someone saw them playing somewhere, still they worked hard to craft their skill to even be noticed. Nobody is dragged kicking and screaming into super stardom even someone like K.Cobain who hated the industry but dreamed about being 'on a plane'.

Chater, with all due respect, you just contradicted yourself. You said it has nothing to do with luck, and then that someone made it just because they happened to be noticed somewhere. That sounds like luck to me.

I think "making it" is ALL about luck and timing. It can't be any other way. How else do you explain musicians/artists "making it" while much better musicians/artists don't "make it"? Let me give a few examples from my own genre of choice - punk rock. How in the blue fuck has Green Day or Rancid sold more records than the Ramones or the Dead Kennedys? How does this happen? There's hundreds, maybe thousands, of pop-punk bands better or more important than Green Day or Rancid that haven't had a tenth of their success. I'm not saying the Ramones weren't successful, but shit. Rancid? Blink-182? Come on. It's all about luck and/or being weak and easily digestible to the stupid masses. Some get lucky, some don't.
 
Chater, with all due respect, you just contradicted yourself. You said it has nothing to do with luck, and then that someone made it just because they happened to be noticed somewhere. That sounds like luck to me.

I think "making it" is ALL about luck and timing. It can't be any other way. How else do you explain musicians/artists "making it" while much better musicians/artists don't "make it"? Let me give a few examples from my own genre of choice - punk rock. How in the blue fuck has Green Day or Rancid sold more records than the Ramones or the Dead Kennedys? How does this happen? There's hundreds, maybe thousands, of pop-punk bands better or more important than Green Day or Rancid that haven't had a tenth of their success. I'm not saying the Ramones weren't successful, but shit. Rancid? Blink-182? Come on. It's all about luck and/or being weak and easily digestible to the stupid masses. Some get lucky, some don't.

I am saying, even something that seems lucky is not because it took hard work for that 'lucky' musician to practice his skill to be good enough to be noticed. And how do I explain Green Day selling more records than the Ramones? Different times and different eras. Also Green Day writes pop rock you can sing along to. The Ramones, I can't make out what Joey is saying... People like to sing along to songs.

Anyway, the era of an A&R rep heading down to the local club to check out the scene is over. Now, more than ever nothing happens by dumb luck. Companies can't take chances on somebody unknown, it's all calculated.
 
music for video games, music for movies, music for weddings and funerals, music for the bars, music in the parks, music at festivals, music at halftime. There is still hope.

Lol. For a second there I thought you were a spam bot :facepalm:

ummm, sorry I said we need to stay on-topic and stop with lols.....
 
I am saying, even something that seems lucky is not because it took hard work for that 'lucky' musician to practice his skill to be good enough to be noticed.
Then how do you explain the jillions of very competent musicians out there that haven't been noticed by anyone? Face it, it's not about skill, it's not about songwriting, it's all about luck.

And how do I explain Green Day selling more records than the Ramones? Different times and different eras. Also Green Day writes pop rock you can sing along to. The Ramones, I can't make out what Joey is saying... People like to sing along to songs.
Wait, have you ever heard a Ramones song? You're telling me that no one can sing along to Sheena is a Punk Rocker or I Wanna Be Sedated? Lol. Okay then. Sorry, but I'm not buying that. There may be something to "different times, different eras" but the Ramones were around for 20 years before Green Day. They spanned three decades. They were there for the birth of punk and lasted all the way to it's resurgence in the 90's. What did Green Day do to get huge besides be younger and cuter? Green Day doesn't play better, they're not more unique or original, and stylistically their music is very similar. Almost copycat when they broke big. The Ramones lyrics are a little more demented and less palatable to the dumb masses. I'll give you that. Still, it has to just be luck. What else could it be? It can't be simple hard work. Green Day certainly have not worked harder than the Ramones - the Ramones played over 2200 shows all over the world. They're highly respected by their peers in music and were one of the most influential American rock bands ever. So it must just be pure dumb luck for Green Day. And that's okay. Good for them. They play sing-alongs and got lucky. I'm not hating on Green Day, I like their earlier stuff, I'm just saying....they got lucky.

Anyway, the era of an A&R rep heading down to the local club to check out the scene is over. Now, more than ever nothing happens by dumb luck. Companies can't take chances on somebody unknown, it's all calculated.

I agree to a point. Bands don't just "get discovered" anymore, but that's a relatively new phenomonon. So now it's all calculated. More like manufactured. The aspect of luck has shifted from a nobody getting noticed to a nobody being marketable. That's even worse.
 
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My theory is, and you might disagree, but if you plan long enough sooner or later your music will be listened to by the right people whether you are aware of it or not. You will be noticed. The difference is, is somebody going to do something about you? If your music isn't marketable, you aren't cute enough, young enough, whatever, then nothing will happen. But everyone gets noticed sooner or later.

Green Day's music is good and so is Blink 182. Why have they sold more records than the Ramones? Because in the Ramone's time the marketing machine wasn't so slick and there was no MTV to push sales .
 
It's all luck and it's silly to think otherwise.
First off , every single act that makes it has 500 other identical acts out there that do exactly what they do and work just as hard.

Working hard gets you there? lol at that.
No one has worked harder than me and I know personally some great acts full of talent and doing the proper pop stuff very similar to what was on the radio that worked themselves, and their management worked themselves, almost to death.
No go. And I know these bands personally so there's simply got to be 1000 others that I don't know.

hard work is neccessary but it doesn't get you anywhere at all if you're not lucky.

As for the idea that you HAVE to work hard at your craft ..... I present Justin Beiber. He was discovered when he was so young that it's not possible that he worked hard at perfecting his craft.
In fact, since he doesn't dance very well and he doesn't sing very well, he hasn't worked that hard at all. But he was cute and he caught one of those waves of public interest in someone. And his wave has about petered out longterm. 10 years from now he'll be another Britney Spears who is mostly watched as an curiousity ..... what bizarre thing will this person do next? But he got lucky and he's rich ........ good for him.

Luck is the predominate factor ...... working hard is second and talent is a distant third in importance.

Without luck though, you can work as hard as you want ...... hell, NO one has worked harder than me ........ I can admit that I had a chance that i turned down because my daughter was 1 and needed me here more than I needed to be in europe ..... but still. I'm living proof that work alone won't do it.

Anyone who truly thinks luck has nothing to do with it doesn't earn their living in the biz.
Those of us that do know better.
 
My theory is, and you might disagree, but if you plan long enough sooner or later your music will be listened to by the right people whether you are aware of it or not. You will be noticed. The difference is, is somebody going to do something about you? If your music isn't marketable, you aren't cute enough, young enough, whatever, then nothing will happen. But everyone gets noticed sooner or later.
I don't really agree, but whatever.

Green Day's music is good and so is Blink 182. Why have they sold more records than the Ramones? Because in the Ramone's time the marketing machine wasn't so slick and there was no MTV to push sales .

MTV? Ramones started in 74 and ended in 96. MTV started in 81 and is still going? (I guess, I don't watch). That's 15 years of overlap between the two. There was plenty of MTV to push sales. The Ramones made videos in the height of the MTV era. I don't know why no one saw them. But we're off on a tangent now. sorry.
 
As for the idea that you HAVE to work hard at your craft ..... I present Justin Beiber. He was discovered when he was so young that it's not possible that he worked hard at perfecting his craft.
In fact, since he doesn't dance very well and he doesn't sing very well, he hasn't worked that hard at all. .

Exactly. He's a perfect example. He was a youtube "hey look at this cute kid" and someone took him and groomed him and shined him up and gave him to tweens all over the world. Pure dumb luck.
 
I think luck is the predominant factor in achieving big-time success in pretty much anything, not just music. Talent and hard work obviously help, and in some cases may be a big factor, but I think good fortune always plays a major role in someone rising to the top.

With regard to streaming vs. buying individual tracks vs. buying entire CDs, it seems like iTunes and places like that serve to distribute the wealth more broadly across the industry. I grew up buying tapes, records, and then CDs. We didn't go out and buy a CD based on hearing one song on the radio. I only bought something I'd either already heard at someone else's house or that was done by a band I already knew I liked. It was something of an investment.

AT $.99 a song, I think people are now paying for music that they wouldn't have in the past. My wife downloads tons of songs from iTunes and it it's really just one or two songs from tons of different bands rather than lots of songs from a few bands. Assuming others do the same, it suggests that the income is being distributed more broadly and maybe some less mainstream acts can at least generate some revenue that way. It also seems to make it less likely that a concentrated number of acts will amass tons of wealth while others get little or none, doesn't it?

She did start on Napster though back in the day and after maybe 50-100 tracks, but then decided on her own that it was wrong and switched to paying for them.

I do find it ironic that the top discussion of the week in the upcoming newsletter will likely be this one about the previous newsletter.
 
Having a viral YouTube video is the new "being discovered".

You can slog away for years gradually building a following, or you can get lucky and have a single video that get 2 million views granting you all the (dis)advantages of flash in pan success.
 
One can certainly feel that they were "lucky" at getting that defining gig where they got noticed by some record company executive...or that they were lucky one of their songs was heard on You Tube by some major music publisher who offered them a deal...etc...etc...
...but I think, and agree, that "luck" isn't something that just falls out of thin air, and thinking so will only leave people with a sense of disillusionment and apathy because "luck" hasn't fallen out of thin air on them.

Luck can come from out of nowhere once in awhile...but I think for most, it comes from a multitude of events falling into place because someone invested a great deal of time and effort on a variety of things that simply put them in a postion...to have luck fall on them.

Just sitting in your basement playing your guitar and waiting for your "lucky day"...you'll be a VERY long wait.
Getting out and playing, networking with other musicians and industry types at various industry vents, and marketing the crap out of yourself or your music - and that's not just about posting your songs on Me Space and waiting for discovery (that's just like sitting in your basement)...
...all those things are events that YOU DO that help generate the luck that might find your one day.

The classic story of the "new artist" that just broke into the big time...menawhile he was working hard at it for 20 years before his "lucky day". I doubt if he had not been working hard at it for 20 years that he could EVER have gotten "lucky".

Here's a quote from a website where the topic of "luck" was considered...it pretty much demystifies where luck comes from and why some people are "luckier" than others.

There’s no real mystery about why some people are lucky and get the opportunities.

It’s also not that hard to get some for yourself.

What is luck, anyway?
Is luck some kind of cosmic gift – something you’re either given or denied? Or is it something you generate yourself?

I’m not talking about the £100k bag of banknotes that falls into your garden from a passing plane. Nor the plane that falls onto your house. Those are just too rare to be considered (except by the airline, perhaps…).

No. I’ve watched a great many people in action, in my various (but overlapping) roles as strategist, project manager and shoulder/therapist/coach, and I am absolutely certain that it is self-created or – just as frequently – self-destroyed. For me, luck is opportunity, and opportunity is something you can create for yourself, if you know how.

Usually it’s the knowing how that’s the problem, since neither lucky nor unlucky people really know what they’re doing right or wrong, and if asked will give you clichés for answers.

What luck looks like
(in case it’s been so long you’ve forgotten…)

Someone ringing you out of the blue saying “we need your services, today”; meeting the partner of your dreams at that dry-cleaners you don’t usually use; having that ‘eureka’ moment for an idea as you gaze at a pile of printer cables; discovering your partner is a con-artist just before you sign the contract (rather than just after!); hearing before anyone else about some amazing offices that are about to go on sale for a song; discovering that the plan that just collapsed has opened the way to something far more interesting.

A quick guide to opportunity
Here’s an outline of the things that are vital for luck. Where are you on the scale?


Goals and Plans: these don’t have to be Uber-Goals, where your life is devoted entirely to achieving them; they can simply be a clear direction. Enough to mean that your antennae (see Creativity) have something to report back to.

If you don’t know where you’re going and how to get there, then you have no way of identifying an opportunity, even if it lands by your feet. You know how when you’re looking for something in the cupboard and you just can’t see it – until you remember that it’s blue and flat, not red and boxy? It’s the same thing.

Connections: very good things can come from an extended and nurtured network. If you sit on your sofa all day and shun human contact, you can probably see that the chances of that out-of-the-blue offer are low.

Further, connections are not just lists of names: how well do you understand your connections’ offerings and needs? Do they really know yours? If they are to recommend you to others, they need to be able to articulate exactly what it is you are selling.

Creativity: this is the ability to spot opportunity amongst apparently unconnected information, and see the new opportunity created by disaster (some people manage to get rich in a credit crunch…). It’s also the habit of constantly exploring new zones and new information, with your antennae pricked for relevance to your goals. If you keep your mind firmly on the one track, all you’ll see is more track.

Emotional stability: this underpins everything else, so that your mind is free to perform and attract, instead of self-sabotaging and repelling. Part of this, of course, is attitude: seeing the positive in events and the new opportunities, instead of relentlessly seeing only the negative. You’ve all met people who are their own worst enemies: alienating everyone they meet, ignoring big red warning flags and avoiding responsibility for their lives and decisions. They’re not opportunity-generators, they’re bad-luckniks.

Back to you
When it’s written down like this, it all looks a bit obvious; but consider your own efforts in each area – how are you actually doing? An imbalance in any of these areas could be hindering you quite seriously, but it’s easily changed. All of these have training available for them in one form or another. This time next year you could be the luckiest person you know.
 
greg all those other guys sell albums cause the ramones, and a few other key bands paved the way. i think it's that simple.
 
Hey look! I made a Venn diagram!

music success.webp

The big red circle is pretty much where you need to be if you want to make significant money.
You can probably have a career anywhere in the blue circle, but you're not guaranteed any significant money, and it's probably a good idea to have a "real" job if you want to feed a family or not live on ramen.
You can probably have a more successful career anywhere in the green circle, but you're probably writing jingles at that point.

*edit* Hey look! I just noticed a typo in my venn diagram! It should be "lucky."
 
greg all those other guys sell albums cause the ramones, and a few other key bands paved the way. i think it's that simple.

Well yeah obviously, but I always wonder why the influential bands are always eclipsed by the stuff they inspire.
 
Well yeah obviously, but I always wonder why the influential bands are always eclipsed by the stuff they inspire.

Because people aren't ready for groundbreaking shit. It takes people time to become accustomed. By the time they get it, the originals are long forgotten and the new shit is all that is on their mind. Kids actually BELIEVE that there is something unique or different about greenday, etc.. as an aside - the other thing every last one of these bands do is SUCK THE HUMOR out of everything. They are all so fing SERIOUS. I'm not lumping these guys together but - The Ramones, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Suicidal Tendencies all had a freaking WICKED sense of humour. They all had some funny, fun shit. You can like or hate on anyone I listed - but i think the idea is true.
 
Because people aren't ready for groundbreaking shit. It takes people time to become accustomed. By the time they get it, the originals are long forgotten and the new shit is all that is on their mind. Kids actually BELIEVE that there is something unique or different about greenday, etc.. as an aside - the other thing every last one of these bands do is SUCK THE HUMOR out of everything. They are all so fing SERIOUS. I'm not lumping these guys together but - The Ramones, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Suicidal Tendencies all had a freaking WICKED sense of humour. They all had some funny, fun shit. You can like or hate on anyone I listed - but i think the idea is true.

I agree. Those bands were fantastic. Those bands also had an edge and were dangerous. They had an "aura" around them that later shit just can't touch. That's what I like about those first gen punk bands and first gen hardcore bands. They were dangerous. There's nothing dangerous about Green Day and their music reflects it. Maybe that's why they got so popular. They are safe and sterile poppy punk for the radio. 12 yr olds can go to their concerts and not get their feelings hurt.
 
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