removing 'picking' sound.

tvaillan

tvaillan

New member
Maybe my rig ain't top notch. I have to live with it. Micing and/or changing rigs is not an option. Please bear that in mind when answering. I can however spend about 300$ on the problem.

PROBLEM:

When recording any guitar passage that requires picking, the sound of the pick is so prominent that it spoils the mix.

It sounds like everytime a note is picked, that somebody is scratching their jeans with their nail simultaneously. It's an anoying litle scratching sound that's so 'in my face' right now that my production is at a dead halt until the problem gets resolved.

DETAILS:

Using Korg Toneworks AX1500G straight into the mixer (left and right chanels).

(the toneworks unit is a stereo pre-amp/cabinet simulator/fx processor. I NEVER use the fx. I only use the distortion/pre-amp and cab sim. )

Primary tone/sound is 65% distortion, good midrange, good prescence. I'm basically recording distorted passages with a rich/warm distortion sound a la Satriani. (the anoying problem persists irrespective of the distortion type and passage type)


STEPS TAKEN:

Tried swapping pick types and gauge.

I attempted to use a compressor on the track to perform a half-assed type of band pass filter (i think that's what it is).

Then I tried to use notch filters (again, i think that's what it's called) at around the 400Hz, 800Hz and 900Hz with really low bandwitdth.

No go. I can't fix it.


QUESTION:

If i bought a multi band compressor and stuck it between my guitar and pre-amp, would that help?

Why can't i get that anoying little scratching sound out of there?

Has anybody encountered this situation?

Has anybody solved this?

What frequencies did you find the problem at?

Compressor or EQ? (Or something else)

ANY help appreciated.

This is driving me bananas.


Thanks.

Tristan.
 
A compressor would actually make the situation worse - since it reduces overall dynamics, it would tend to make the pick noise even more prominent compared to the rest of the signal.....

Actually - the only real way around this is to adjust your playing technique.......!
 
"Compressor or EQ? (Or something else) " - Actually, maybe some of both - as in, "De-Esser" ? I think you may be looking at too low a freq for the offender though - maybe more up around 2-4k? If you can, use a parametric EQ, medium band, peak about +8-10 dB, and sweep the EQ while playing the track, the bad stuff will jump out at you. Now, narrow the band, fine-tune, and turn it down.

A de-esser is just a compressor with an EQ in the side chain. Set the EQ to peak the bad stuff, then plug it into the side chain. Set the comp for short attack/decay (need to play with this too, for best results) Remember, whatever you EMPHASIZE in the side chain is what will be compressed the most.

If you have a software compressor that allows de-essing, try similar settings.

Other than that, maybe a Nerf pick?
 
Other than that, maybe a Nerf pick?
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:D I love that.

Here's a thought... I've had strange funky problems (like the one you're having) trying to record direct with cheap units, and ended up micing the amp. Granted, it changes your dynamics and tone all to hell, but if you have an amp you can try it with, give it a try. It would be well worth re-dialing in your sound, and it very well may solve your problem.
 
Thanks Bruce you're right. Compressing the output certainly squashed the overall dynamic range when agressively trying to minimize the problem. Really frustrating.

So the compressor on the output was a bad bad idea.

How about if I put it on the input? I'm thinking about getting a Rocktron Chameleon pre-amp. It has a built in compressor. I figure a short attack and medium release and ratio of 2.5:1 above -15db? (keeping soloes in mind)

I can get the chameleon unit for cheap enough (used). It's got 24bit adcs/dacs.

The playing technique is fine, I tried a few picking techniques and still get the same result. Changed the pick to.

Can't turn the tone knob either, that would kill my sound, but I'll try your suggestion Mr. Brane. I'll keep you posted.

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"Side chain" would be a great term to add in the homerecording.com glossary of terms. (Frantically looking for meaning ...)

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De-Esser ey? ... i'll try that as soon as i figure out what side chaining is.

Thanks guys. Really valuable info here. Seriously. At least now I've got something to work on and as a newbie, the experience of fidling with a dynamics processor (plugin , not rack) and trying to fix my sound was a great experience.

Sumary:


1- I'll try the de-esser thing. I'll also start by pipointing my problem area with a medium band sweeped across the spectrum then will narrow it down to a tee. I hope that the offending pick noise is not spread out across the spectrum. The 'thud' is fine .. that's normall. It's that 'zipper' sound i can't freaking stand. It WIL drive me insane. Damn i couldn't sleep last night.

2-Unless told otherwise i'm trashing my Korg Toneworks and geting the Chameleon. Hell if it doesn't solve my problems, it'll at least give me a wider range of sounds. (the toneworks really gets great sounds if you play with it long enough)

3-learn piano
 
Are you playing an acoustic or an electric guitar?

My first thought was changing picks.... But what about trying new, or different gauge strings? Or maybe even hitting the strings in a different place on the guitar (on the neck, or further away from the pickup). Does changing pickups make any difference?

You may have tried all of these .... But these are cheap fixes! :)
 
electirc. Ibanez JS with dimarzio pickups. Tried picking at the neck, mid and bridge positions. Picking at various positions is certainly valid techqniqie .. and i use it all the time.


A patient walks into the doctor's office and says: "It hurts when I do that." The doctor replies: "Then don't do that.".
 
A patient walks into the doctor's office and says: "It hurts when I do that." The doctor replies: "Then don't do that.". [/B]
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I grew up with my dad always saying that to me. I still laugh every time... :)

that and "pull my finger"!

ok, back on track.... "Dont do that" can be hard to do if you like the way you play tho. I can understand, I am a guitarist too. And if some producer said the answer is "dont play like that" I would get pissed. The way you play is your style. Maybe the answer to the problem is to use it to your advantage. Make it part of your "sound".

I really think the answer is to fix your "sound" BEFORE the recording stage and NOT change your playing style. Because if I understand you correctly, the scratching is always there. Not just picked up when recording. So trying to fix it at the recording stage may be a ton of work. It's almost like your guitar is too sensitive.

Maybe you might want to try posting the same question in the guitar forum. This may be more of a "tone" issue.
 
rondo!!!!!!


It's almost like your guitar is too sensitive.
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*dim light turns on in head*

Dude!! Perhaps my humbuckers are too close to the strings!!!! Is that a possibility???

The scratching sound is really anoying. I AM gonna kill it. I can't live i with it. It's IT or ME.

The de-esser may be the solution too as mentioned above. I've been doing some reading on that topic.
 
Dude!! Perhaps my humbuckers are too close to the strings!!!! Is that a possibility???
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...sounds like a winner to me. I do believe that would create the symptoms you're describing.

Sensitive guitars can be a problem. You may have to call it a bitch and slap it around a bit to toughen it up too :D
 
Seanmorse79 said:
Sensitive guitars can be a problem. You may have to call it a bitch and slap it around a bit to toughen it up too :D
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LMAO!!!

Good one! I was waiting for someone to comment on that.

About the humbuckers..... I'm not a guitar expert, but definately worth a try. I'm one of those guys that has a guitar that sounds the way I like and I don't mess with it. If I want a different sound, I just buy another effect pedal!

I'd try posting to the guitar forum too. May save some time screwing with your guitar.
 
Funny that thing I thought you were describing sounded like string talk. I use plumbers pvc glue on the fingertips to squash that, ( its also good if you wish to leave no fingerprints).
 
Are you sure your not obsessing needlessly over this? The pick attack is a pretty common element of guitar playing and I don't recall it ever being much of an issue.
 
well if the attack was a muted thud instead of a high frequency scratch sound .. i'd be perfectly happy. As it stands, the scratching really spoils the mood of a nice solo. It sounds like some rapper guy is scrathing records while i play my soloes. It's damn anoying. (Of course there's nothing wrong with record scrathing/rap lots of people seem to like that sorta thing, but in this case it really doesn't jive very well.)

.. and yes i'm obsessing over this, and loosing sleep over it too.

there must be a solution.
 
Dude!! Perhaps my humbuckers are too close to the strings!!!! Is that a possibility???
Click to expand...

I don't know about the pick attack problem but having pickups with strong magnets close to the strings will reduce your sustain and screw with your intonation.

Try the tone knob thing. That's how EJ gets that violin tone. He rewires his Strats so the tone works on the bridge pickup. I think he changes the tone cap as well for a different roll off point. Then he rolls the highs off on the guitar and boosts 'em on the amp.

Something to try anyway.;)
 
Here's my final remark on this subject. This was posted in the guitar forumn.

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The attack is fine .. it's that nasty 'zipper' type sound that just sounds like someone's scratching records when i'm soloing.

I've tried two picking techniques (the only ones i know and can maintain) , have tried swapping picks and lowering the humbucker.

The post-recording de-esser certainly helps a bit.

I'm gonna try a 'pre'-preamp 'de-esser' to see about reducing the awfull harmonics and just live with a slight amount of em in order to not kill my attack altogether.

Seing that i'm not dealing with an amp .. i use a pre-amp/cab simulator, and the other radically different and more expensive rackmount preamp that i tried suffers from the same problem (yes, different guitarist and guitar), it is my belief that the cabinet simulation circuitry (Korg,Rocktron,Line 6 where tested) has a long way to go before being close to perfect as possible. (NOTE: The Roland VG-88 most likely doesn't suffer from this problem since the big boys use it in the studio. Satch, Vai...).

I can not and will not use an amp in my appartment. Noisy neighbourhoud would leak into the mics neighbours would complain after 2:00am. (Unfortunately)


The funny part is that i didn't notice the problem for months. it's the kind of problem that's difficult to pinpoint, but once you tune in on it , it dominates your world of recording even if 90% of people wouldln't hear the problem . .. cause I HEAR IT. My band members hear it (once i pinpointed it for em) and the other guitarist has the same problem (he heard it on his own).

The best thing now is for us to get into a healthy recording habbits and for me to deal with the problem over time and many paycheques. (rack compressor, rack equalizer, house, amp)


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Thank$ everybody. Problem $olved.
 
This is so wierd. Other than the obvious suggestions already brought up like less tone, less gain, dropping a little EQ notch somewhere, I can't help but think that that's just what it sounds like. Violins sound bowed, drums sound banged, guitars sound picked. Have you tried different guitars with different pickup? Maybe different strings? bright shiney new strings sound a bit buzzy and scrapey to me too and i much prefer mine with some finger grit worn into them.
 
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