Removing Floor Tom Constant Rumbling

[RecordingMaster]

Hi there,

I have maple drums with wood hops which increases resonance of the drum. The floor toms sit in cradles as opposed to being RIMS mounted or attaching legs or brackets to the actual shell. This increases resonance yet again.

When I used to record with my old kit with metal hoops and legs attached to shell, due to a lack of mic stands, I used to use mic clips on the floor toms with mics that are supposedly equipped with an iso-mount. I've never had a problem before, so I went and used them on my new kit to record a series of songs for an EP. Without listening too carefully to the floor tom tracks, I went ahead and kept those tracks because they sounded great as a whole.

So now I am in the mixing stage adding a couple subtle gates to remove some bleed, compression, eq, verb etc to each drum track. When I zone in on the floor toms (I have 2) I am hearing a low rumble that is constant the whole time, even when the floor tom is not being struck. The kick drum bleed amplifies this as well. I tried fixing it with a gate, but when the gate closes, it's too abrupt - it doesn't trail off. It just ends. So its "Drum hit">"Natural Drum Resonance">"Vibration problem">"Stop". It doesn't gradually fade it closed. I've tried experimenting and can't find a way to do this with the gate that comes with Pro Tools 9 under dynamics.

Is there another way I can get rid of this constant hum/rumble on the 2 floor tom tracks? I was wondering about some sort of frequency noise filter (not just a parametric eq) that can zone in on the issue and remove or reduce it.

Any help is greatly appreciated, as always. Thanks guys n' gals.

 

[Greg_L]

1) There's gotta be a way to trim the gate closing to be smoother

2) EQ out the hum, but that will effect the overall tone of the drum when it's hit, unless you automate the EQ to turn on and off

3) Physically cut out the drum hits, delete the rest of the track, and draw your own fade.

Just some ideas.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Have you tried just a HPF? Could just be subs causing the problem.

Post a link of the rumble.

 

[RecordingMaster]

I'm new to fancy schmancy gates and such, since I can finally simultaneously record separate drum tracks. So maybe there is a way to trim the gate smoother, I'm just not finding out how. You'd think it would be a combo between the Hold and the release controls, but both of those controls just prolong/shorten the resonance, then cut it abruptly. There is an attack control , but when I mess with that it's almost like this gate is acting as a compressor as well. It's changing the actual sound of the drum, when all's I want to do is open and close a gate so I only hear the hits. I'm using a BF76 compressor to actually change the character somewhat and control dynamics mostly.

Anyways, I will post a sample of the hum very shortly. Great idea.

 

[dreib]

Ive run into this problem and it drove me nuts, because im impatient and wanted a quick fix I just used some moon gel. It stopped the constant resonating BUT didnt choke the drum out.

Just an idea if you dont want to mess with gates...I still have not gated anything on my drums that I liked, I wish I could figure out how to do it correctly..

 

[RecordingMaster]

Ive run into this problem and it drove me nuts, because im impatient and wanted a quick fix I just used some moon gel. It stopped the constant resonating BUT didnt choke the drum out.

Just an idea if you dont want to mess with gates...I still have not gated anything on my drums that I liked, I wish I could figure out how to do it correctly..

I'm using Moon Gel. Thing is, I could duct tape 10 magazines to the top of the floor tom skin, but it would still rumble under the mic on a clip. It's because, as I mentioned, the combo between wood hoops, mic clip on rim, and free floating floor toms that just send the vibration straight through to the clip. Next time it's mic stands on the floor toms too! That, and the take is done. Great take, drums sound great, except....you know!

 

[mixsit]

... You'd think it would be a combo between the Hold and the release controls, but both of those controls just prolong/shorten the resonance, then cut it abruptly. There is an attack control , but when I mess with that it's almost like this gate is acting as a compressor as well. It's changing the actual sound of the drum, when all's I want to do is open and close a gate so I only hear the hits. I'm using a BF76 compressor to actually change the character somewhat and control dynamics mostly.

Anyways, I will post a sample of the hum very shortly. Great idea.

Two things.. Can the gate release go out to several hundred ms? I would guess a moderate amount of hold, but it would be the long release that should force the slow close.
The comp could maybe be set to let the stike through then clamp down- Then that overall level down some might give you hit' with less ring.

Also, is there a HP filter function on the gate dector? That can make it see' then time' to the hit more than the rumble. That could be part of it in that it could pull the ring' part out of the effect on the threshohd.

 

[CrowsofFritz]

This actually happened to me with the tracks a guy sent to me. Fortunately he only hit the tom a couple times throughout the song. I would try what Greg said. #3 may be your best option.

 

[RecordingMaster]

This actually happened to me with the tracks a guy sent to me. Fortunately he only hit the tom a couple times throughout the song. I would try what Greg said. #3 may be your best option.

Yikes! I foresee a lot of time invested if I go with #3. Not to say I don't invest loads of time into my stuff, but ya. lol. I'm a very dynamic drummer, so my strokes have ghosts, accents, I ride the floor tom some times, etc. I'll see how many strokes there actually are in all of these songs and then decide if it'll be worth it.

Mixsit, I will look into your questions suggestions as well. I'm not at my DAW right now so will look later.

 

[miroslav]

Yeah...after the fact, your only friend is editing.
It's no big deal...but it does take time.

You can try EQ, but with toms, I think the rumble will be too close to the frequency of the toms...so you maybe need to cut it really fine and just live with the results of having a little rumble and removing a little of the tom's tone.


NOTE TO SELF:
Mic clips on drums are not good in most any situation or type of drum kit. For live, yeah...but not for recording.

 

[Greg_L]

I use mic clips on my toms all the time and have no problems at all. They're rubberized though.

 

[miroslav]

I guess it depends if the drum is/isn't resonating through the clip into the mic...and you obviously have your kit setup dialed-in.
I'm sure much of it depends on the drum, the clip and the mic type being used...but there's less/no chance of "rumble" from vibrations when using a mic stand.

I have some of the rubber-ish clips that have "teeth-like" grips, I think they came with some of the Sennheiser drum mics, and I also have some that are more hard-plastic with a thumb screw that you tighten to attach firmly at the rim, and then I have ones made out of solid metal, real heavy duty clips that also screw on...but since I don't put up a lot of mics on the kit, I only need a couple of stands, so it's safer with them.
I gave one set of clips to my drummer buddy so he could mic up his kit when playing live.

 

[Greg_L]

there's less/no chance of "rumble" from vibrations when using a mic stand.
.

That's not true at all. A lot of that rumble and hum comes from the head itself sympathetically vibrating as you bang the rest of the kit. If the head is in tune, it's gonna sing. Mic stand or clip, the mic is gonna pick it up. Usually the tuning difference between the top and bottom head makes it minimal and very unnoticeable, but sometimes under ideal circumstances, that head can get to singing - especially if it's a whole band situation. I've had live recordings done in which my floor tom hummed the whole time. We go back and listen, and there's this hummmmmmmmm across the whole thing. After about 2 hours of head scratching we realized it was my floor tom.

 

[Guitargodgt]

In the future, try to sample your drums after the fact removing all cymbals and deadening all other heads first of course.

Then replace them after the fact. You get phase accuracy with the full decay of the hits.

Makes it easier to edit stuff in the situation you are in. Anyhow, I'm sure Greg can confirm but IIRC tuning the bottom head higher than the top head results in less ring out in tom drums (like an octave higher IIRC).

 

[moresound]

NOTE TO SELF:
Mic clips on drums are not good in most any situation or type of drum kit. For live, yeah...but not for recording.

I use mic clips on my toms all the time and have no problems at all. They're rubberized though.

These were my thoughts on your problem - get a separate mic stand and at lest give it a try.

 

[miroslav]

That's not true at all. A lot of that rumble and hum comes from the head itself sympathetically vibrating as you bang the rest of the kit. If the head is in tune, it's gonna sing. Mic stand or clip, the mic is gonna pick it up. Usually the tuning difference between the top and bottom head makes it minimal and very unnoticeable, but sometimes under ideal circumstances, that head can get to singing - especially if it's a whole band situation. I've had live recordings done in which my floor tom hummed the whole time. We go back and listen, and there's this hummmmmmmmm across the whole thing. After about 2 hours of head scratching we realized it was my floor tom.

I know what you are referring to...but based on what the OP was saying about a "rumble"...that to me implied it was the drum vibrating the clips/clamps and in turn vibrating the mic.
So...if that is the case, using a mic stand physically decouples the mic from the drum...but yeah, the heads "humming" can also be an issue, and something different.
I'm just not sure which the OP is experiencing...?

Mics hard-clipped to the rims will surely pick up more vibration/rumble than mics on a stand....some more, some less.
They have those mic clips with like a small circular rubber ring, for like a SM57 kind of mic...and that acts as a cheap shock mount and cuts down on rumble since the mic isn't touching the hard/plastic clip.

I'm not saying you can't clip on mics to the rims and still make it work...just that using stands removes the physical transmission of rumble from the hard connections...and then you just have to deal with the resonance of the heads, which as you say, could induce vibrations too....but at least with the mics off the rims, it's one less possibility.
I mean...he can try it a few ways and see what works best.

 

[Greg_L]

Anyhow, I'm sure Greg can confirm but IIRC tuning the bottom head higher than the top head results in less ring out in tom drums (like an octave higher IIRC).

Sort of. And an octave is a lot. Even with uneven tuning between the top and bottom head, the heads will still ring, it just won't be as bad. If either head is in tune with itself, like it should be, it's gonna vibrate and ring whenever that frequency is present - be it from a guitar, bass, or other drums being played.

Each shell has it's own natural resonant frequency. To get the most open tones you need to tune the heads somewhere near that frequency. If you nail it exactly on both heads, the drum will boom and ring like a bell. It's sometimes shocking how boomtastic a big tom can be when everything is right in the sweet spot. That's usually too much for most people, so they tweak it. Tuning the bottom head tighter than the top will cut down on some of that resonant boom, but it's mostly done for the tone and not to control resonance. Having the bottom head tighter yields a cool doppler pitch bending sound that really makes toms pop and sound musical.

 

[Greg_L]

I know what you are referring to...but based on what the OP was saying about a "rumble"...that to me implied it was the drum vibrating the clips/clamps and in turn vibrating the mic.
So...if that is the case, using a mic stand physically decouples the mic from the drum...but yeah, the heads "humming" can also be an issue, and something different.
I'm just not sure which the OP is experiencing...?

Mics hard-clipped to the rims will surely pick up more vibration/rumble than mics on a stand....some more, some less.
They have those mic clips with like a small circular rubber ring, for like a SM57 kind of mic...and that acts as a cheap shock mount and cuts down on rumble since the mic isn't touching the hard/plastic clip.

I'm not saying you can't clip on mics to the rims and still make it work...just that using stands removes the physical transmission of rumble from the hard connections...and then you just have to deal with the resonance of the heads, which as you say, could induce vibrations too....but at least with the mics off the rims, it's one less possibility.
I mean...he can try it a few ways and see what works best.

Yeah we don't know what this dude has going on. It could be anything. I've never mic'd toms with wood hoops so maybe they do transfer more into the mics via the clips. I have mic'd bunches of metal rimmed drums though, and with rubber or plastic clips, I haven't ever noticed anything bad coming through.

 

[Guitargodgt]

Cool that makes sense. Sal was talking about that a little, he was talking about his tour kit and how all the shells themselves are tuned to compliment each other (the resonant frequency of the shell itself) before heads are even added.

 

[Greg_L]

Cool that makes sense. Sal was talking about that a little, he was talking about his tour kit and how all the shells themselves are tuned to compliment each other (the resonant frequency of the shell itself) before heads are even added.

Right. The high end shells can be ordered to have their own "note". Many keller shells and DW kits come with the note stamped on the inside of the shell. For example, you can have a tom setup that naturally tunes to E, G, A, and D or something like that. I personally think that's taking things a little too far, but whatever floats your boat. To me, I don't care what the drum's natural pitch is. As long as it's tuned to sound good, it'll sound good.