Religious Tone Experience

[WhiteStrat]

So tonight, an old friend comes over to my studio. We've never played together in 30 yrs--he's 10 years older, and I first became a fan when I was 12. The difference between 12 & 22 is huge! Over the 30 years since, we've crossed paths--I've run sound for a show or two of his, he's been to a show or two of mine. Anyway he knows I'm putting together a studio, and he's been writing. So he wants to come over and dream and scheme about a CD. I figured he'd bring a guitar or two to play around, but he only brought one.

A 1964 completely stock Strat. And one amp. A 1966 Fender Deluxe Reverb (I think that what it was).

I was blown away. The guitar played and sounded like a dream and the amp was pure tone. Nothing in between but a cable.

And you talk about easy to record. He wanted to hear his rig and wanted me to track him a bit. I warned him that I usually need time to play and tweak and test and adjust (just trying to cover my arse in the likelihood of less than stellar on the spot results). He says lets try it anyway. I threw up an old unidyne 57, and instantly got 90% of the way there. It was a bit dry, so I threw up an AT condenser behind the amp to catch the room. Never adjusted either of 'em. He then played on top of his original track (without a click or anything). You'll hear him singing, too (without a vocal mic). Lemme tell ya, that rig recorded itself!

This is it: totally spontaneous on the fly throw up a mic and see what happens. What an eye opener for an "80's rocker" like me--now I'm lusting for an amp like that. (Yeah I plugged my white strat into it, and while not quite as nice as his '64, it was still better than it has EVER sounded.)

EDIT: I just noticed you can also hear the snare vibrating behind the thing. It was loud enough to break up a bit...

 

[Guitarer]

Hmm, I believe the link didn't copy

 

[WhiteStrat]

Hmm, I believe the link didn't copy

Sorry 'bout that. Try it now...

 

[rockerdude]

That sounds very nice.....

 

[Dani Pace]

I can relate to what you are saying. I was totaly blown away the first time I heard the playback of my '67 twin. I was used to solid state amps and the tube tones almost knocked me over.

 

[Light]

Guitar, cable, amp. And a simple amp at that. No master volume. Simple.

It really does make a big difference. You'll never get that sound out of an amp with a Master Volume. It just won't happen.

Prepare to be dissatisfied with anything else for the rest of your life.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Thurgood]

there is nothing like teh direct path. I hve been enjoying hollowbody into fender deluxe lately. (Forgive spelling please, I am typing in the dark) The pure nturl tonw is a delight. Be well all. W.

 

[famous beagle]

Sounds sweet! Yes it doesn't get sweeter than those old simple amps.

 

[ocnor]

I threw up an old unidyne 57

Wow that must have been painful! Maybe you should think about changing your diet. More fiber , less electronics.

The clip sounded great. Did you use some type of noise reduction? I don't recall old strats being that quiet.

 

[WhiteStrat]

Wow that must have been painful! Maybe you should think about changing your diet. More fiber , less electronics.

The clip sounded great. Did you use some type of noise reduction? I don't recall old strats being that quiet.

No noise reduction, but you're right it was quiet. I didn't even notice where he was playing--but maybe he was in pos. 2--notched between the neck & mid and killing the hum.

 

[ggunn]

No noise reduction, but you're right it was quiet. I didn't even notice where he was playing--but maybe he was in pos. 2--notched between the neck & mid and killing the hum.

In your first post you called it "a 1964 completely stock Strat." Not to pick nits and someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that the 5 position switch and RWRP middle pickup (for hum canceling) were stock on '64 Strats. I remember reading that Jimi Hendrix used to cram paper matchsicks into his 3 position switch to jam it into what became positions 2 and 4.

You're right about the old Deluxe Reverb; I heart my '65 BFDR.

 

[famous beagle]

In your first post you called it "a 1964 completely stock Strat." Not to pick nits and someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that the 5 position switch and RWRP middle pickup (for hum canceling) were stock on '64 Strats. I remember reading that Jimi Hendrix used to cram paper matchsicks into his 3 position switch to jam it into what became positions 2 and 4.

You're right about the old Deluxe Reverb; I heart my '65 BFDR.

You're right that the 5-way wasn't available, but players were able to access the in-between positions by manually putting it there. Maybe he was doing that.

 

[WhiteStrat]

In your first post you called it "a 1964 completely stock Strat." Not to pick nits and someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that the 5 position switch and RWRP middle pickup (for hum canceling) were stock on '64 Strats. I remember reading that Jimi Hendrix used to cram paper matchsicks into his 3 position switch to jam it into what became positions 2 and 4.

You're right about the old Deluxe Reverb; I heart my '65 BFDR.

You're right that the 5-way wasn't available, but players were able to access the in-between positions by manually putting it there. Maybe he was doing that.

Yeah--my '94 is the extent of my Strat intimacy, so before this thread I didn't know that about the earlier selectors. I played his 64' but unplugged--to check out the neck, so I didn't even fiddle with the selector. The stock comment was my own assumption based on him telling me that pickups certainly were--but maybe there were other mods.

Or maybe the surprising silence was the sense of awe in the room...

(For you old pro purists, it probably sounds like I'm gushing--but I was blown away!)

 

[ggunn]

You're right that the 5-way wasn't available, but players were able to access the in-between positions by manually putting it there. Maybe he was doing that.

Yes, lots of players did that, as I did with my old Strat before I got the 5-way switch. However, I also think that all three pickups on those old Strats were wound and polarized the same way, so the position 2 and 4 sounds were available as you say but they would not be hum canceling. That's how mine was.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Yes, lots of players did that, as I did with my old Strat before I got the 5-way switch. However, I also think that all three pickups on those old Strats were wound and polarized the same way, so the position 2 and 4 sounds were available as you say but they would not be hum canceling. That's how mine was.

It was actually a 50-50 sort of proposition. Remember that those old strats were never wired up with the intention of using more than one pickup at a time. So, because of that, no one really paid attention to whether or not they were in phase. Some would be, and some wouldn't be, just pretty much by luck of the draw, and how the pickups happened to be oriented. If the middle pickup happened to not be in phase with the bridge or the neck, then that's what you'd get.

The intentionally out of phase middle pickup was an inovation that came with the 5-way switch.

 

[ggunn]

It was actually a 50-50 sort of proposition. Remember that those old strats were never wired up with the intention of using more than one pickup at a time. So, because of that, no one really paid attention to whether or not they were in phase. Some would be, and some wouldn't be, just pretty much by luck of the draw, and how the pickups happened to be oriented. If the middle pickup happened to not be in phase with the bridge or the neck, then that's what you'd get.

Are you sure about that? Hum cancelling pickups are not merely out of phase; in fact the signals they generate are not out of phase at all. For a pickup to be hum cancelling with another one, one of them has to be wound in the opposite direction (RW) and its magnets have to be installed in the opposite orientation (RP). You can't make a pickup RWRP just by orienting it differently. Swapping it end to end doesn't change anything. Flipping the coil over changes the magnets' orientation but not the direction of the windings, which would make it out of phase, not hum cancelling (or more accurately, it would be hum and signal cancelling), but not RWRP.

 

[Light]

It was actually a 50-50 sort of proposition. Remember that those old strats were never wired up with the intention of using more than one pickup at a time. So, because of that, no one really paid attention to whether or not they were in phase. Some would be, and some wouldn't be, just pretty much by luck of the draw, and how the pickups happened to be oriented. If the middle pickup happened to not be in phase with the bridge or the neck, then that's what you'd get.

The intentionally out of phase middle pickup was an inovation that came with the 5-way switch.

RW/RP pickups are not out of phase. Because both the magnets and the coil are reversed, they are in phase with a "normal" pickup when it comes to the strings. They are only out of phase to RF interference, which is only picked up by the coils and is not effected by the magnets. Very few old Fender pickups are wound backwards, and they all have the magnets going the same way. So no, the in-between "positions" on stock old Strats are not hum-canceling. But sometimes you just get lucky and don't get any noise. It's nice when it happens. And of course, some players are just really good at turning down when they are not playing.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Are you sure about that? Hum cancelling pickups are not merely out of phase; in fact the signals they generate are not out of phase at all. For a pickup to be hum cancelling with another one, one of them has to be wound in the opposite direction (RW) and its magnets have to be installed in the opposite orientation (RP). You can't make a pickup RWRP just by orienting it differently. Swapping it end to end doesn't change anything. Flipping the coil over changes the magnets' orientation but not the direction of the windings, which would make it out of phase, not hum cancelling (or more accurately, it would be hum and signal cancelling), but not RWRP.

Not quite. Two out of phase pickups will be hum-canceling; but they will sound out of phase. In order to make them sound normal together, you need to reverse the magnets on one of them. Then you get both hum-canceling AND a "normal" sound.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[WhiteStrat]

Follow up to my religious tone experience:

I've had a Harmony H400 (a single volume--no tone stack--25 watt tube amp) from '66 in pieces for a few months in my basement shop. I cosmetically refinished the cabinet, and replaced the grill cloth, but the head needed to be recapped. I just never got around to it...

After last night, I grabbed the ol' Harmony this morning, and on my lunch took it to the repair shop. I'm not deluded enough to think it will even approach that Fender, but the guy with the Fender was familiar with it & said I might be surprised at the vintage vibe it'll put out. Amazing how a little motivation changes your perspective.

Now I can't wait to get my simple one knob tube job back from the shop. (Then I'll go back to my vintage Fender amp lust. )

 

[DrewPeterson7]

I could be dead wrong, but I thought I remember reading that somewhere, that the famous Strat "in between" sound was a product of dumb luck, and some old strats would do it stock if you jiggled the 3-way right, while some wouldn't.

Then again, the mythos surrounding those guitars is such that I've heard a LOT else about them, much of which I wouldn't believe. :lol: