Relation among power, breath, pitch and accent...

[James Argo]

Can anybody gimme a light about it ? I mean which one first to exercise ? And how (in plain english ) they're related one another ? I kindly ask cause I heard somewhere someone said the better your breath, the more your power, the higher your pitch - which I think is not actualy correct But how in the world do I know without the wisdom Singer & Vocalist forumist brings
For thou knowledge and wisdom I shall learn more


Jaymz

 

[kdgospel]

James,
I have never had any "formal" vocal training, but I have listened to numerous vocal tapes. What I have learned is that diction (accent) will help with pitch and proper breathing will help with power. About 10 years ago I was taught the wrong way to breath while singing. I was taught to sing from my diaphram and while keeping your stomach muscles tight. Needless to say when using this technique and being in front of 100s of people and being nervous I almost passed out several times. I've since learned the proper way to breath while singing. It is hard to describe, but I will try. When you inhale your stomach should go out not your chest. If you were laying on the floor on your back with a book on your stomach and inhaled the book would go up not down.
I don't know how plain this is but I tried.

 

[morindae]

Correct breathing is very important as most people will tell you. Also regular daily exercises to establish the middle voice will increase your range somewhat, and also improve your placement and pitch. What you are asking for will come from a working on more than one facet of your voice. It all comes together after a while to produce the instrument you know you are capable of.

 

[James Argo]

James,
...What I have learned is that diction (accent) will help with pitch and proper breathing will help with power...

This is plain interesting, kdgospel Thanks !!! What I mean is, I'm proportionaly skinny, not into sport or anything, but I am in a good health. I'm smoking ~ a pack/day. And I know only few technic about singing (falseto, etc.). My problem is, although I consider my pitch's range is average, most people play with me (the band) will always say... "Lets turn it down couple tunes, Jaymz... it's too high for you, your breath can't reach it. It needs more power..." . I record my voice while singing many times to identify what went wrong. I know I can reach that tune, and it sounds fairly good enough for it's genre. But no matter how hard I tried (I even scream sometimes ) they seem to "more power, Jaymz!!" at me... errr
There's several singing lesson in town I had for years, and each of them insist their methods is the right one (...yeah sure! ). And they have taught me with un-proportional example. I wanted simple thing. Don't wanna be Mariah Carrey nor Backstreet Boys. Just to ask them to tell me, where my voice supposed to go. Each course giving me different answers subjectively, based on their taste. And somehow, none of them seems to close to what I honestly feel. So I quit, and try to reveal it myself. Now, I kindly need to know what to do to train my "power"..?

Thanks!

Jaymz

 

[chessparov]

Jaymz, the biggest thing you could do right now to improve and
protect your voice is to quit smoking IMHO.
You probably have a "lyric" voice, see below.

There are two basic types of singing voices in each classification
(tenor/baritone/bass)-"lyric", which means melodic, and "dramatic" which means louder/more intense.

One way you can help make a lyric voice sound more dramatic is to simply raise the volume on the microphone.

Also you can emphathize certain parts of your voice when singing different material. For example, if I were in a rock band I'd stay within my baritone range, whereas in lighter pop genres, 2nd tenor is a viable option as a lead voice for ballad/harmony based music.

The efficient use anyone's voice is mostly based on how well it resonates, rather than using force. This is why proper humming is
so good for vocal training.

Chris

P.S. Excellent info on breathing is in that book "Set Your Voice
Free", by Roger Love.

 

[smellyfuzz]

GOOD INFO CHRIS !!!


Sean

 

[James Argo]

That's cool Chris !!!

Thanks so much So, -just like in mastering process- the term "The Louder Is Better" is some time miss interpreted here, right ?

 

[chessparov]

Thanks for the kind words.

Most singers who are not fully trained, like myself, sound better when
singing mezzo-forte AKA medium loud.

So if you're loudest comfortable level is the "10", around "7" is optimal.
Then as you gain better coordination, the medium and eventually the
softer levels star getting more in control.

BTW, if you're a "car singer" (like me), NO high notes and/or high volume
levels. If the windows are down, the ambient noise can make it easy to
get too loud-not the best situation as posture usually is compromised, etc.
Just stay in the most comfortable sections of your voice in a moderate
volume. Good opportunity to practice harmony counterpoint if the lead
voice on the car stereo is higher/lower than what range is easy for you.

Chris

P.S. I used to think that LP's sounded objectively better than "today's CD's".
Coming to the conclusion it's mainly how much they squash the albums
with compression typically nowadays, rather than the recording medium itself.

 

[kdgospel]

James,
morindae and chessparov have a lot more formal knowledge about this than I do and I need to clarify one thing I said. I said "diction will help with pitch". I think that should really be "diction and placement will help with pitch". Lots of times how you pronounce a word will place it where it will be easier to hit the note with more power.

I will say the same thing someone else said about smoking. Smoking will take away some of your power and volume. I have been quit now for approx. 5 years. When I quit I couldn't believe how much more stronger my voice became. It wasn't as much breathing as I didn't have all that crap in my throat to "sing around" anymore. Still there are a lot of great singers that smoke.

On the "Jaymz it needs more power" thing. Someone else said turn the mic up. That's what I do. Let the mic do the work for you. I also do so much better if I can hear myself well in the monitors.
Singing out of your range and straining to hear yourself because you are not loud enough in the monitors or your mic is not loud enough period, will zap a lot of power out of your voice.

 

[terocious]

Something I was taught and found to be true for myself was that your range increases proportionally in both directions. i.e. if you practice singing higher then your will find you can also sing lower.

Dammit I have to quit smoking.

-b

 

[morindae]

Think about it....everytime you inhale, the hot, toxic smoke runs over your beloved vocal cords. After a period of time, you develop chronic irritation and inflammation of the cords. This can lead to mutation (dysplasia) of the laryngeal cells, which will significantly increase the possibliity of laryngeal cancer. This is treated by giving you a partial or full laryngectomy, AFTER you've been poisoned with chemo and radiation. That's a very good reason to give up the smoking wouldn't you think. I gave myself sometime back, so I really understand how difficult it is.
Since we're all talking to eachother as well as James about improving the voice, let's admit that there are many factors that will need to be addressed for him to improve his voice. All of the advice given so far is excellent. However, improvement of the voice is a multifaceted problem that requires discipline and daily workouts. There is no magic bullet for his issue, just hard work and a lot of searching for the correct approach that will work for him.

 

[kdgospel]

morindae,
You sound like a doctor. You definitely know your stuff if you are not.


I would like to ask James a question that has been brought to my attention before from someone that had formal vocal training. She asked me (and this question goes to you also James) "is your voice getting tired?" She didn't mean overall physical fatigue. She meant can you sing for long periods of time and not lose anything vocally (still be able to hit the same notes at the end of a gig like you could at the beginning). At the time the answer for me was, yes. My voice would get tired, less powerful, and I wouldn't be able to hit the same notes at the end of a gig as I could at the beginnning. She said that if you were singing in your range and using proper singing techniques that you could sing all day long with no problem. By practicing, lowering keys on songs, and trying to learn proper techniques I am now to the point where I can sing for a couple of hours on Sat. night, a couple of hours 2 times on Sun., and my voice ends up on Sun. stronger than it was on Sat.

 

[morindae]

Gospel, I spent a few years treating cancer here in Los Angeles and Palm springs. I loved the work, although it can be very draining at times working with people who are terminal cases, especially little kids. In the latter case, you have to watch the parents and the child suffer, which is heart wrenching. It was the ultimate reality check for me.
Your point about stamina is totally on. Good technique helps you sing longer and better. I still have a long way to go myself, and believe me, I have had my share of vocal problems from bad technique. However, these days I sing longer and better because of the improvements I have made.

 

[terocious]

Think about it....

morindae,
Thanks a lot. Thinking about it is better then trying not to think about it. Yes to the daily workout!

-b

 

[James Argo]

Ugh... Thanks guys... You're truely my maaan

Anyway, I agree about that smoking is bad bad habit for vocalist. many attempt to justificating smoking for "uglier" (read: better for old fashioned blues genre ) voice is nonsense. I tried to quit, but didn't have any good reason that pushed me to. BTW, a pack of cigarette here contains only 6 mild ones...


okay...


cigarette is cigarette...


mild or havana... it's bad for voices


To answer "is your voice getting tired?" I would answer "nope". I can sing for hours and hours without my voices actualy getting tired. In fact, the longer I sing, the higher the range Sometime on stage, I let the "higher notes" songs to be played on last minutes... think I'm all warmed up by the time... Is that some good indicator or something ?


Jaymz

 

[kdgospel]

If your voice is not getting tired then you must be using decent technique. Maybe you should just try the mic thing (turn it up and let it project your voice) or have you tried different mics to see how they sound on your voice?
I've used several different live mics and the one that makes my voice sound the fullest is a Shure beta 87. Coming in at a close second is a Beta 58. The normal SM58, even though it is a good mic, does not project my voice the way the others do.

 

[smellyfuzz]

To answer "is your voice getting tired?" I would answer "nope". I can sing for hours and hours without my voices actualy getting tired. In fact, the longer I sing, the higher the range Sometime on stage, I let the "higher notes" songs to be played on last minutes... think I'm all warmed up by the time... Is that some good indicator or something ?

You are doing something right.


Sean

 

[James Argo]

Phew... glad to know that I've talked with my band yesterday about how would they describe my "powerless" voices. They said somehow it's thin. It's not actualy the level loudnes, but it's rather thin as in frequency range... hmmm... more like "telephony" sound Anyway, I do have several mics you mentioned (Shure SM57, SM 58, SM58 Beta, and SM58 Beta Wireless UT4, and AKG (forget the type???) ). I've tried many more type before, but IMHO, Shure is the best for my kind. Keep coming Thank's guys


Jaymz

 

[kdgospel]

I was using a SM58 to record with. After dumping the tracks on my pc for mixing I noticed the vocal sounded thin. I messed with the eq for awhile and noticed that I could come up about 1db at about 300db and it would add some fullness. This does not mean you should come up at 300db, but rather try to use your eq on your mic's channel to see if you can get a fuller vocal.

Another thing to try is look at the specs on your mic to see if there are any frequencies that it accentuates (most do). If you are using a mic that accentuates upper mid freqencies you might want to come down on the eq on that frequency and see what happens. I am still somewhat of a newbie to all this, but have learned a lot in the last year. Someone else may be able to shed some more light on what I am trying to say.

 

[smellyfuzz]

I've talked with my band yesterday about how would they describe my "powerless" voices. They said somehow it's thin. It's not actualy the level loudnes, but it's rather thin as in frequency range... hmmm... more like "telephony" sound

Ok,

If I'm understanding this right, it sounds to me like you have a "richness" problem.

I can maybe point you in the right direction.

First of all, get that mouth of yours as open, as wide, as possible. It will feel funny, but it does not look funny and it will improve the sound of your voice ten fold.

Second, power comes from the diaphragm, which you already know. You will need to learn and practice exercises that strengthen it up.



Sean