Reflections In The Water

[fat_fleet]

Welp, it's not as long as "Whales" but it's up there.
Brand new pretentious psych wankery- listen to as much as you want, as little, or not at all.

I sing and play drums, bass, electric and 12-string guitar, keys, sitar, udu drum, bongos, and kazoos.
Comments and mix crit welcome. My ears are toast.

Reflections In The Water

 

[heatmiser]

Wow.

Ok, you post a mammoth composition and you get a mammoth response.

I'm on the second run through, although I didn't make it to the end the first time as I got interrupted. I did zip forward to the Indian section for a second and am anxious to get back to that section again.

I like the sound you got for the drums on this. They sound fuller than what I remember from your last recording. I really like your playing a lot. The mellow breaks with the ethereal keys were done well. I love that sort of plucky, slightly dirty but almost clean guitar sound on the strumming bits. Some of the synthy sounds in the first guitar section seemed a little almost '80's-ish? Just stuck out to me I guess as a little out of place.

When the vocals first kick in, it was a little jarring, but I liked it as it went along. Maybe ease them up in volume as you get through the first phrase or so, rather than having them come in right at that level?

Was the bass through an amp and mic? It sounds kind of cool, but different than the usual DI to me for some reason. What kind of guitar / amp combo on this track? Liking the feedback.

Ok, we're at the sitar section now...sweet. Sounds a little flat/sour at first, but the parts mirroring the vocal lines sound awesome. The claps/snaps during this part are a little loud I think. The percussion is awesome here.

I don't know how you kept it all straight. It is really very cool and I am impressed. It is awfully long and rough around the edges in places, but worth it for me anyway. Thanks for doing this.

 

[fat_fleet]

Wow.

Now it's my turn to say 'wow'. Two freaking times?!
Thanks a lot for your nits.... think I addressed most of them. By 80s-ish synthy sounds, were you talking about the line that comes in around 4.05? I swapped it out for a sawtooth patch and hopefully it's a little better. The sounds at the very beginning and in the middle quiet part are volume swells on guitar, not synths... wasn't sure if you knew that as people sometimes mistake my spacier guitar noises for synths. Anyways, yeah there is one wonky note on the sitar (that I hit quite a few times those things have adjustable frets). That's pretty much the one thing I didn't fix (yet) as I'd have to retrack....not sure if I'm gonna go that far yet.

Was the bass through an amp and mic? It sounds kind of cool, but different than the usual DI to me for some reason. What kind of guitar / amp combo on this track? Liking the feedback.

I did a split signal with the bass, one DI track and one mic'd amp- something that I read about around here but had never tried... I've gotten comments before about the bottom end on my stuff and I can't really seem to get a thick sound down there with just the Sansamp DI, though I love it's bite and "presence". I used a MIM Strat for most rhythm guitars and an LP Studio for most leads, but there are a few exceptions. And most of the guitars go thru my 60's Fender Bassman, though it started crackling and spent a few days with the tech while I used my Blues Deville 4x10 RI for some parts(the volume swells and I can't remember what else). Most of the feedback is Strat->Bassman.

Anyways thanks for checking it out- I know it's an earful.
I get a feeling no one else in here will touch it with a ten foot pole...which at least tells me I'm on the right track.

 

[david42]

I like it so far, but I'm only 30 seconds in.

 

[david42]

there's some kind of buzz starting at about 4:06 that I don't like, but maybe it's these cheap computer speakers. i really like this song, makes me think it's Rush Yes and Pink Floyd collaborating, so far.

 

[Greg_L]

Lol. One could listen to 4 of my songs before your vocals even come in.

Well, I made it all the way through. That was tough. Lol. I like the ambition, but I think many of the key parts are a little thin. The vocals seem very small. Kind of AM radio-ish to me. The overdriven guitars and feedback are cool touch, but they too sound thin. Not enough ballsy meat to them. The kick is a little timid and the snare is all whack and no body. Bass sounds great. All the other extra shit like the keys and sitar seem fine. I dunno, this style is the complete opposite of what I can relate to, so I don't know how to comment on it. Seriously, an 18 minute song? That's like half an album to a simpleton like me.

 

[fat_fleet]

there's some kind of buzz starting at about 4:06 that I don't like, but maybe it's these cheap computer speakers. i really like this song, makes me think it's Rush Yes and Pink Floyd collaborating, so far.

I dunno, I'm not hearing the buzz...kazoo maybe? Thanks for listening dude- I'll try and check out your thing in a bit!

Seriously, an 18 minute song?

I've had some time on my hands recently.
I think I'm a little shocked that you actually listened to it, never mind made it through. That musta been brutal.
Believe it or not I like a lot of punk-and-related rock, and played in a few indie/punk-type bands around here. A drummer in one of my last bands flat out stopped playing one of my songs once because it ran close to 5 minutes. Now with my own HR stuff, there's no one to keep me in check- I'm just a fruitcake on the loose!

I like the ambition, but I think many of the key parts are a little thin. The vocals seem very small. Kind of AM radio-ish to me. The overdriven guitars and feedback are cool touch, but they too sound thin. Not enough ballsy meat to them. The kick is a little timid and the snare is all whack and no body. Bass sounds great.

You've mentioned my kick before. If you don't mind, do you think it's performance, mic positioning, dynamics processing, or some combination?
Also, I read a lot of posts in here about micing amps....general consensus says not to record it too loud, yet most amps don't sound good unless you push 'em at least a little. I know plenty of great sounding records have been recorded with loud amps.... maybe I'm too close to the center of the cone?

 

[Greg_L]

I've had some time on my hands recently.
I think I'm a little shocked that you actually listened to it, never mind made it through. That musta been brutal.
Believe it or not I like a lot of punk-and-related rock, and played in a few indie/punk-type bands around here. A drummer in one of my last bands flat out stopped playing one of my songs once because it ran close to 5 minutes. Now with my own HR stuff, there's no one to keep me in check- I'm just a fruitcake on the loose!

A 5 minute song is a little much for me too. I like em in the 2:00 - 3:30 range.

I do have an epic 9+ min punk/prog clusterfuck on my album coming up though.

You've mentioned my kick before. If you don't mind, do you think it's performance, mic positioning, dynamics processing, or some combination?

Probably a little of everything. For one, just make it louder in the mix. Kicks are a stupidly simple drum but can be pretty tricky to record well. Finding the balance of boom and slap takes some time. Enhancing that well with EQ and compression takes more time.

Also, I read a lot of posts in here about micing amps....general consensus says not to record it too loud, yet most amps don't sound good unless you push 'em at least a little. I know plenty of great sounding records have been recorded with loud amps.... maybe I'm too close to the center of the cone?

Probably. I like bright guitar sounds, but yours lacks a little body and depth. That's usually too much center cone and/or too much EQ cutting. I've been guilty of it myself many times. The thing for me is, that sometimes woofy low end that you hear in a guitar track on it's own pretty much vanishes in a mix but it gives the guitars some depth and power. I've never seen anyone say don't record loud. That's the only way I've ever recorded an amp. But don't record loud just to record loud. If your amp sounds best at 3 or 5, then record it there. If it sounds best at 10, record it there. For an old amp like yours, it's probably gonna want to be pretty loud to sound right. Record an old non master vol Marshall at bedroom volumes and it's gonna sound like ass. Those things need to be cranking. I'm also a believer in getting the speakers into their meltdown zone. Or close to it. Get those babies vibrating. That's when they sound good.

 

[fat_fleet]

Yeah, I could have too much low-end slashed on the gits too. I'll check later.
Now I'm thinking of doing a couple short cover tunes to workshop some sounds and tones. It's a little demanding to expect people to listen to this thing over and over again. Thanks again for your ears.

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah, I could have too much low-end slashed on the gits too. I'll check later.
Now I'm thinking of doing a couple short cover tunes to workshop some sounds and tones. It's a little demanding to expect people to listen to this thing over and over again. Thanks again for your ears.

I do that all the time. A cover is a great way to test shit out in a full mix without wasting an original.

 

[heatmiser]

By 80s-ish synthy sounds, were you talking about the line that comes in around 4.05? I swapped it out for a sawtooth patch and hopefully it's a little better.

Yup, those were the sounds I meant. I like the sawtooth (?) better, although it has quite a buzz to it!

The sounds at the very beginning and in the middle quiet part are volume swells on guitar, not synths... wasn't sure if you knew that as people sometimes mistake my spacier guitar noises for synths.

Yeah, those are the parts I meant. It's cool that those are guitars. It sounds very full and swirly and stuff. Strats are great for that stuff. I can't reach the volume knob on the sg to do that...

And most of the guitars go thru my 60's Fender Bassman

Those are considered quite desireable for guitar from what I hear. That's awesome that you have one. I guess I have to agree with Greg that the crunchy guitars are a little thin sounding though.

 

[david42]

I just finished listening finally. I got interrupted this morning, phone calls, business.

I like the guitar tone and think it's a matter of taste. And I'd probably still like it if you adjusted eq a little, but I'm gonna call it a coin toss on that. I got no problem with 80'sish synth sounds.

Out of key adjustable fret sitar notes gotta get fixed, starting about 16:20 for the next thirty seconds or so, and you're good to go.

I'll buy it if it's on an album similarly impressive. If I could pick anyone on this site to collaborate with, that I know a little of so far, I'd choose you.

Now I'm off to mix Chacopoyan Love Beads again, even though I said I wouldn't till I do it over.

 

[david42]

And the 4:06 buzz. that's annoying.

 

[david42]

On rereading the thread, yes the 80'sish synth sounds perhaps replaced w sawtooth at 4:06 is exactly what I'm talking about.

If you're gonna share a buzz at least put it at 4:20, ok?

 

[fat_fleet]

I guess I have to agree with Greg that the crunchy guitars are a little thin sounding though.

Ok. I have to ask- the guitars were tracked at different times, different amps, settings, mic positionings etc.
Is there any particular section that's especially thin? Or are they all thin across the board? Because that would point to EQ cuts...easy fix.

Yup, those were the sounds I meant. I like the sawtooth (?) better, although it has quite a buzz to it!

And the 4:06 buzz. that's annoying.

That's a kazoo. A kazoo under the synth line playing the same thing. Do you guys not like kazoos or something?

What are you Nazis?

 

[heatmiser]

Ok. I have to ask- the guitars were tracked at different times, different amps, settings, mic positionings etc.
Is there any particular section that's especially thin? Or are they all thin across the board? Because that would point to EQ cuts...easy fix.

I think it is across the board. If you did low EQ cuts there, maybe undo or at least back off a little?

What are you Nazis?

Yes, but what's that got to do with anything?

I used kazoos on my current track too. I'll listen again tonight when I get home and see what I'm hearing there.

 

[david42]

That's a kazoo. A kazoo under the synth line playing the same thing. Do you guys not like kazoos or something?

What are you Nazis?

Yep, that's it. We're the ones kept Pink Floyd from truly expressing themselves.

And it's a good thing, too. Can you imagine the number of no-talent teenagers running around with kazoos saying "I'm gonna be a rock and roll star" If we hadn't made David Gilmour switch to guitar?

You should be thanking us.

 

[Greg_L]

I've used kazoos many times. Love em.

 

[kcearl]

well that was epic!


I liked it, I liked the mix....it reminded me of an early 70's production....not that loud, lots of dynamics....the whole thing is ambitious as fuck but I didnt find any part of it boring


I dont have much to say nits wise, I read the other comments while listening, and while Id agree with them, Im not sure Id change anything in it


great stuff man....thanks for sharing

 

[fat_fleet]

Can you imagine the number of no-talent teenagers running around with kazoos saying "I'm gonna be a rock and roll star" If we hadn't made David Gilmour switch to guitar?

Guitar might be easier to play...it literally only takes a couple hours to learn. Maybe that's why everyone plays it?

I've used kazoos many times. Love em.

I used kazoos on my current track too.

You guys should check this thing out - I've gone through a couple of em:
Amazon.com: Multi Voice Changer by Toysmith: Change your voice with 10 different voice modifiers - Kids Toy (Colors May Vary): Toys & Games

well that was epic!


I liked it, I liked the mix....it reminded me of an early 70's production....not that loud, lots of dynamics....the whole thing is ambitious as fuck but I didnt find any part of it boring


I dont have much to say nits wise, I read the other comments while listening, and while Id agree with them, Im not sure Id change anything in it


great stuff man....thanks for sharing

Wow dude, thanks! I'm glad a few members have checked it out...already it's more than I expected. I definitely listen to alot of stuff from the late 60s and early 70s and kinda go in for the more fruitcakey stuff from that era... some really BAD sounding stuff from when stereo sound was new and mix engineers used to do things like have an entire drum kit coming out of one speaker... Not trying to make excuses for myself, I just don't know much about clean modern mixes.... I guess I eventually want to have something that melds the two...sound somewhat sensible but not too modern if that makes any sense...
Saw your new Stanton deck in the vinyl thread btw- that thing is sweet!

Anyways new mix, tweaked some levels, eased up on the guitar cuts, hopefully didn't go too far in the other direction.... yadda yadda...