reel headaches

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JustinBell

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ahhh where to start.. Ive had this mixdown deck (atr 700) for mabye over a year half now, and being a musician way more so than a engineer, recordist (is that a word?) or whatever I eventually went back to doing everything digital (ahh!) aaanyway my analog bug is back and I will eventually get a multitrack machine aswell, but for now I wanna try and get this damn thing up and working. So, I got these oold tape (pretty sure its polyester) and Ive tried playing it on this machine, the volume is just pretty much non existent and muddy when I play it on monitors or headphones. Ive tried recording on this tape and the same thing happens, loow low volume, muddy. The vu meters will move and everything mechinical seems to work (ff, rr,record, play) the pinch roller moves, ect. now I know that these machines need to have the heads cleaned ect. and aligned, but shouldnt I hear SOMETHING more the horibble muddiness when playing this back? and asI understand it, alginment just means your setting everything for the type of tape your going to use? Do I have a bum machine? is it just the tape Im trying to play/record on? please someone help!
 
Your 1st mistake was using old tape. Get a new reel. Clean the entire tape path. A quick and dirty way to check playback is to get someone to make you a good copy of some decent sounding program to play on your machine. That way if it all soes south, you aren't putting something important at risk. If playback is ok. Try to record some stuff. If it sounds reasonable, then get the machine properly aligned and maintain it properly. Analog is not to be taken lightly if you want good performance from it.
 
thanks. getting a new reel isnt a problem but getting someone to record a few tunes on it is. also, what am I looking for when checking head wear? whats normal, ect.
what type of tape would you reccommed?
thanks for the help
 
New tape is the best tape. :D

RMGI SM911 or new Quantegy 456 (if you can find it) would be the tape type the machine was designed to use.

I second the recommendation to get the good tape first before you start worying about whether or not something is messed up. Get the tape and then try recording and reproducing something.

Take some hi-res closeup pics of the heads with good lighting and post them up and you'll get some opinions on their condition.

You can also refer to this webpage which is an excellent resource to give you a "heads" up on head wear and condition: http://www.analogrules.com/badheads.html
 
thanks sweetbeats. So youd reccommed staying away from NOS, at least for this first "test"? I live in a small part of canada, so whatever I get I'll have to order, it would be nice if they still made NAB adaptors! that junk tape is on 7" so I think I'll get 10 1/2 but need to get some adaptors :D
I'll take some pics of the heads soon.
oh one more thing, the ff goes faster than the rr, should I be worried hah
 
NOS is "okay" but read that SSS thread. To be honest with you, you are taking a risk with NOS tape and there is no way around that. Your risk is less if it is post 1994 Quantegy, or if it is BASF/EMTEC/RMGI SM911, but spend the extra few bones and just get new. That's my 2p. Then you can rule out the tape entirely as a potential issue.

The ATR-700 is actually a Teac deck. Check with Teac Canada for the reel adaptors...they may have them in stock, or check ebay.ca for any Teac/Tascam 1/4" reel adaptors. They will work just great. BUT, keep in mind that you can get new SM911 on 7" reels.

I wouldn't worry about the FFWD and REW speeds being different at this point, unless there is a drastic difference in their speeds. Can you clarify the difference that you are seeing? It may be a simple tension adjustment, or one motor may be a bit more tired than the other, and it may resolve with some use if it has been sitting.
 
ok the ff seems to be going twice as fast as the rr, and when I stop the rr there is that kinda squeek for as second after I stop it:eek:. Im sure that the tape is threaded right...
 
ok so Ive got this old Califone r2r with speakers built in, someone gave it to me awhile ago but I never did anything with it. at the adive of others Im gunna get some new tape, but remembering that califone I just dug it out and theres a tape on it, so I played it on that machine and it works fine. put it on the atr 700 and theres no sound! what could this be?
edit:
okay I was just listening again and theres a very low sound coming out of monitors/headphones.
The recording is two guitar tracks and when I play it on the atr 700 back one guitar is up an octave! any suggestions?
 
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You can't expect to playback consumer format 2-track on a halftrack deck and have it sound right...

Sounds like you might need to adjust a brake for the speed difference on FFWD vs. REW.

Get some new tape.
 
Clean tape path,New tape, and record. Then play it back to hear how it sounds. Try to stay away from old or used tape.
 
You can't expect to playback consumer format 2-track on a halftrack deck and have it sound right...
Click to expand...

I guess I shouldn't make assumptions about that Califone deck or throw terms around. :o

By "consumer format" I'm talking about a home reel-to-reel stereo deck that records stereo in both directions of the tape (i.e. 2 tracks from beginning to end of the tape, flip the reels over and play from beginning to end...like you do with a cassette). The consumer stereo open reel format (like cassette) actually has 4 tracks on it...stereo in one direction, and stereo in the other...2 x 2 = 4. It is also called a stereo quarter-track (IOW stereo playback and recording and the tape is divided up into quarters)

Your ATR-700 is a "halftrack" stereo mastering reel-to-reel (IOW stereo playback and recording and the tape is divided into to halves)...2 tracks in one direction...2 x 1 = 2.

If you playback quarter-track tapes on a halftrack deck the signal on the tape is only going to deliver a fraction of the flux level that the halftrack is dialed for because the stripe of signal on the qarter-track tape is roughly half as wide as the stripe of signal a halftrack deck lays on the tape...like trying to run a dragster on regular unleaded...and then you've got a disparity in the operating level of consumer tape vs. mastering tape.

All these things are going to work against you in terms of how the consumer tape sounds on the halftrack deck...and then we can likely assume that the bias is way off which will be heard as distortion.

I hope that helps.

I jumped to conclusions about the Califone...do you flip the tape over when you get to the end for the second half of the playback?
 
[/QUOTE]I jumped to conclusions about the Califone...do you flip the tape over when you get to the end for the second half of the playback?[/QUOTE]

hahah I dont know man I havent listened to it all or tried flipping it over to see, like I said earlier someone gave it to me a while ago and tonite I just thought Id mess around with it. Annnyway this is the last time Im going to ever load crap tape on that machine:). I found someone around here selling some old 3m tape that Im buying for the sole reason of getting a take up reel.
And it seems like the only way I can buy new tape is off ebay (http://cgi.ebay.ca/RMGI-EMTEC-911-1...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5186f924fa)
seems ligit right?
I thought there was some rubbing alcohol around here but I guess not, Im gunna pick some up tomorrow to give her a good cleaning along with a digital camera (Ive been putting off buying a new one for a while) to take some pictures of the heads.
 
Lots of places that sell new tape:

US Recording Media
splicit.com
Malelo

To name a few.

Use at least 91% isopropyl alcohol...99% is best but hard to find. No 50% or 70% should touch your deck. Do not use the alcohol on rubber components.

If you are staying in this tape thing you need to get a proper demagnetizer.

Do you have a manual?

For your FFWD vs REW speed I'd check the brakes...start with the takeup brake.

BTW, the reason the guitar sounded an octave higher is because it was recorded at half the speed at which you were playing back on the ATR-700.
 
quality

maybe, you need to change a new quality recorder.:)
 
I disagree...The ATR-700 is a fine open reel deck.
 
 
JustinBell said:
Hey I just took these pictures of the heads on the atr 700, I fear that the record head is opening up:( anyway please tell me how they look!
Click to expand...

Kind of difficult to tell, really. Can you shine a torch or something onto it? Yes, the record head might be opening, but with all those shadows it's very, very difficult to see what's going on.
Frankly, it may very well just be gunk - the erase head seems to be covered in it.

As an aside, in the last picture - showing the head cover - I could be wrong but it looks like you're probably supposed to thread the tape around the rollers on either side of the headblock.

EDIT:

Okay, looking at this in more depth:

http://s388.photobucket.com/albums/oo323/justinbell_photos/?action=view&current=atr700heads001.jpg

...I am 90% certain that this is simply crud on the heads. Have you cleaned the heads with isopropyl alcohol recently?
 
your right about the tape threading, that was an old picture when I first got it, just deleted it. if you look at just those 4 pictures I posted Ive got a flash light to the side to brighten it up some but Im gunna go buy some rubbing alcohol and clean them up then take some new pictures. That dark black line thats on the record head, you think its just gunk? to my the erase head looks cleaner then the record...
edit:
oh ok well thats good new! at least we dont think its opening up, but if you look at the heads there looks like theres some rust hanging around. surrely rubbing alcohol wont take that off? what do you suggest?
 
JustinBell said:
oh ok well thats good new! at least we dont think its opening up, but if you look at the heads there looks like theres some rust hanging around. surrely rubbing alcohol wont take that off? what do you suggest?
Click to expand...

Try to get at least 90% pure isopropyl. Less than that - like rubbing alcohol - and you may end up causing rust spots, which isn't great. Proper isopropyl should be able to remove it - tape is basically rust anyway.
I know what I've done to remove stubborn, caked-on rust, but since then I've learned that what I did wasn't the best of ideas, though it worked for me.
So I'm hoping that someone else will have a slightly less brutal suggestion ;-)
 
ok I just cleaned the heads and tape path. wow there was alot of gunk on them! so here are the pictures after cleaning, please tell me what you think.

btw I dont know how clear it is in the picture but from what I understand if the tape is lined up in the path correctly then the wear should be even. What I mean is looking at the record and repro head there are black lines of equal width on the left and right side of the head.

https://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo323/justinbell_photos/atr700heads/atr700heads2004.jpg

https://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo323/justinbell_photos/atr700heads/atr700heads2007.jpg

https://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo323/justinbell_photos/atr700heads/atr700heads2002.jpg

https://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo323/justinbell_photos/atr700heads/atr700heads2003.jpg
 
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