Recording with US-428

T

thwackless

New member
I'm putting 4 ins from a 4-track recorder into CEP 2.0 via the Tascam US-428, and there are input impedance differences between sets of ins A;B, and C;D.

A;B input impedance is 22kohm, and C;D impedances are 47kohm at the MIC/LINE position, and 680kohm at the GUITAR position.

C;D inputs go in to tracks in the application at a lower recorded level than do A;B inputs.

When using A;B simultaneously [with C;D at the MIC/LINE position], would it be advisable to use impedance adapters to even out the levels going into the two different sets of inputs?

Thanks for your time,

Rog.
 
Are you using the direct outs from the 4 track for all of the tracks?

If so, you could route tracks 1/2 into the a/b inputs from the direct outs, then route tracks 3/4 out through the 4 track's mixer and main outs, into the c/d inputs on the 428, using the 4 track's pans to seperate 'em, and the volume faders to give 'em enough of a boost to balance the recording levels..
 
Yes, direct outs for all 4.
I got that. Fine idea, thanks, Stryyder.
I could even run the signals going to the US-428 into an external mixer on the way- balance inputs as needed. Same thing, essentially, right? Probably a good idea for live recording, etc.?
 
Now that I think about it, please excuse my ignorance of the 428, I don't have one, but aren't there trim controls on the 428? if so, couldn't you trim the input signals up or down on two of the channels to balance the levels? This would allow you to still bypass any un-needed electronics in the 4 tracks mixer section, and may sound a little cleaner.

Just an idea..
 
thwackless said:
I could even run the signals going to the US-428 into an external mixer on the way- balance inputs as needed. Same thing, essentially, right? Probably a good idea for live recording, etc.?
Click to expand...

Yes that should work just fine, as long as the mixer has 4 discrete busses, so you can record 4 seperate tracks into CEP
 
Impedance to the music...

I should clarify, just for my own clarity!, that the 4-trk we're transporting from has discrete outs (same as "direct outs"?) for each track. We're inputing individual outs from the 4-trk into individual ins on the -428, and so the problem of differing impedances...

So, right: Trim controls; discrete busses... got that!

The trim controls on the higher-impedance inputs (C and D) seemed to get very hot as I turned the knob a short distance, at a particular point in their travel, so I've been a bit shy about that; but yes, turning down the other two ins might work, I'm just trying to get my gain up enough to avoid noise, which reduction I was playing with last night...and I should point out I'm not doing anything with the 4-trk yet, just me, my bass, and bad vocals.

Maybe some kind of external mic pre is the answer, but I'm experimenting with it, and I suppose I'll find "the spot". Would be fun not to need pre's or a mixer just yet, as I'm presently tapped!

This is showing signs of becoming fun, though!

Thanks for your help, Strryder!
 
hey sorry about a turn in topic a little bit, but im wondering a few things about recording and mixing with tascam 428 and CEP/AA ... When you switch banks from say 1-8 and 9-16 on volume faders, knowing that there are no motorized faders, how does it affect volume fading? I am very close to thinking about purchasing a 428 and would really like to know this. How is it working with cep/aa? also wondering can i combine the 4inputs with my other card input? or will it max out my system?
 
CEP support for US-428

If you're asking me, I'm just getting into this, so I'll give you what I know:

As far as I can tell, if you've gone over to fader bank 9-16, and now are returning to 1-8, you can use the "Null Fader" toggle to bring your faders back to their original position for 1-8, and continue your mixing process.

Automating mixes is done in the program, using the parameters available for various envelopes (like volume, eq), effects, etc. No motors, but you get to know the software and you've got it.

As far as compatibility, there are less available operations in Cool Edit as opposed to, say, Cubase. Cubase offers full support of all the US-428's capabilities. The -428 functions in CEP as far as faders, transport controls, scuttle wheel, and EQ- though the EQ knobs only function, I think, until you arm Record on a given track. After that, you have to mouse it. Also Mute/Solo toggles work, and I believe you can arm Record on tracks using the controller...but I may be wrong. Hey, Newbie here!
Don't know yet about the Assign toggles (F1, F2, F3). Anyway I'm pretty sure there are other functions within CEP, like "Four Control Banks Mode", and if you get the proper mapping protocols you can turn off your neighbor's loud stereo when it's blasting at inconvenient hours...

I got CEP 'cause it's allegedly a super-duper editing app., something that interests me. Cool Edit was also recommended 'cause it's quite easy to learn compared to some of the other stuff out there- a good reason to go with it! I'm starting to have a good time with this little booger! Despite my low-tech penchant.

Concerning using in conjunction with another card, I don't know- but the -428 is a USB device, so I don't think you can link-up with another type of soundcard. ? You better keep seeking on that one! And as far as inputs, see my note above about impedance levels between the two input sections- don't know if that'll complicate your scene...I'm looking into a preamp situation of some type to even-out input levels from A;B to C;D. And A;B section has mic pre's, C;D doesn't.

Most everyone I've spoken to digs or has dug their US-428 for as long as they had it, and no-one got rid of it for reasons of dissatisfaction. They moved on to bigger, better, whatever.

That's all I got! There may be other pieces out there you're looking at, but I looked around pretty good, myself. For the $ and the features, this was the ticket. Good luck, mang!

Rog.
 
hey Rog,

I'm betting that using the trim controls to get a nice even signal going in across all 4 tracks into CEP is gonna do it for ya, if not, then using the 4 track's mixer to do the boost or cut on 2 of the channels certainly will, I couldn't imagine that you would need to buy another peice of gear to get the job done..
 
By the way, what model 4-track are you using?

You may be able to use it as a submixer to get 4 signals into 2 of the 428's inputs while tracking in CEP, this would allow you to put 4 mics on a drum set, mix it to stereo on the 4-track's mixer, and go into C-D inputs on the 428, while also tracking a rhythm guitar and bass into the A-B inputs on the 428, all at the same time.

Just an idea...
 
Well heres my situation-- I have an echo card on my laptop and (Soon) on my desktop computer. Those both have stereo in (2 channels)... So I was wondering as i record from those (from my mackie dfx12 mixer-- this is where i'd connect my condensers), I could also probably record from the tascam 428's 2 stereo lines (4 channels)... So what I'm saying is could I actually run a 6-channel input through cooledit pro if i got this tascam mixer? Maybe you have other sound cards you can test, try recording from your computer's soundcard as well as the tascam's inputs. Im hoping i wont get "popping clicking" problems when using it with my laptop...

can you explain the null fader? does it automatically move to null fader or do you have to manually press null fader every single time you move banks??

I use cooledit pro and have used it for many years. It is by far, for me personally, the best sound editor/multitrack recording solution.

RonC
 
btw, stryder, he isnt referring to a 4track, just so you know, the tascam428 isnt just a hardware controller, it also streams 4 channels right into your computer.

RonC
 
Strryder said:
By the way, what model 4-track are you using?

You may be able to use it as a submixer to get 4 signals into 2 of the 428's inputs while tracking in CEP, this would allow you to put 4 mics on a drum set, mix it to stereo on the 4-track's mixer, and go into C-D inputs on the 428, while also tracking a rhythm guitar and bass into the A-B inputs on the 428, all at the same time.

Just an idea...
Click to expand...

I've got a TEAC 3340s ree-to-reel 4-track (not the same one we're using to import to digital from- that's a cassette machine), sitting by waiting for it's assignment in my little studio-life, here. It's got 4 outs in the back of it labeled L1, R3, L2, R4, with individual Volumes and VU meters on the front, and the 4 inputs have concentric mic/line pots. Sounds like a reasonable chore for it: There's the mixer problem potentially solved for other work, as that's pretty much all I was going to really need a mixer for- drums or other submix chores.

(There's something in the manual for the reel-to-reel that says I need a 4-channel amplifier to record on all 4 tracks at once- tho' I'm just using it to sub-mix through as we said, at this point in the conversation. I s'pose it'd work. I'm going to have to re-read that.)

And I will go on your advice about the input levels for importing the cassette tracks: The routing through the 4 track's mixer and line-outs for inputting 2 tracks into C and D, or trimming the input channels on the 428.

You are saving me some trouble, Strryder, thanks many times over for your time and help!

Rog.
 
Last edited:
rpc9943 said:
Well heres my situation-- I have an echo card on my laptop and (Soon) on my desktop computer. Those both have stereo in (2 channels)... So I was wondering as i record from those (from my mackie dfx12 mixer-- this is where i'd connect my condensers), I could also probably record from the tascam 428's 2 stereo lines (4 channels)... So what I'm saying is could I actually run a 6-channel input through cooledit pro if i got this tascam mixer? Maybe you have other sound cards you can test, try recording from your computer's soundcard as well as the tascam's inputs. Im hoping i wont get "popping clicking" problems when using it with my laptop...

can you explain the null fader? does it automatically move to null fader or do you have to manually press null fader every single time you move banks??

I use cooledit pro and have used it for many years. It is by far, for me personally, the best sound editor/multitrack recording solution.

RonC
Click to expand...

Sorry to keep you waiting, Ron!

What I don't know is whether you can have two soundcards running at once. I think Echo is PCI, and that might give trouble for your USB input from the 428, as USB is known for not being the most efficient method of getting signal into your app. Not that that's much of an issue in practical terms...But the employment of your PCI slot will probably interfere, and now you're poppin'. USB will work fine by itself, but I guess that depends on what you're doing.

I'd like to be able to incorporate the Soundblaster card that is in my computer- but like I say, I don't think USB'll go for that. USB is like a jealous, high-maintenance girlfriend. But it might be fun to record onto the Soundblaster into Cool Edit, for a novel effect to a session- but I don't know how I'd do that, how to get signal into the 'Blaster card, and then into Cool Edit...but I'm getting WAY ahead of myself!

The Null Fader is a toggle button: If you find yourself returning from fader banks 9-16 back to fader banks 1-8 in Cool Edit, you may notice your fader positions have been moved to accomodate faders 9-16 (your rhythm section is at different levels than your vocals and chamber quintet!). So in order to restore your 428's faders to bank 1-8 upon returning, you hit (yes, manually) Null Fader. This disengages control of your on-screen (virtual) faders from the 428, so you can re-calibrate your physical faders to the positions on your monitor screen, and continue mixing tracks 1-8. The OL and Signal led's on each fader's channel strip (on the 428) act like led's on a sabine (etc) tuner, telling you when the 428's fader position agrees with the fader on the screen.

I'm digging Cool Edit myself, so far. Easy to look at. I'm thinking it gets better- it has to! I'm just getting past the basics, and that's pretty huge, I think. I feel a strange 'relief' when I get past a 'problem'! Almost like giggling...

Good luck with your system! Sorry I can't be more help...

Rog.

P.S. Know anything about Soundforge?
 
First off, thanks for telling me more about using the null faders. It sounds kind of annoying but I think I can deal with it.

You dont know how to use your soundblaster with cooledit? Oh man... Well you just set it up in device settings to record or play. Pretty easy... And it is possible to record or play from other sources so I believe it would work, but im not sure... Thats why I was counting on you to do that test, thats disappointing. If I can actually get 6 channels in, im going to be excited. if or when i get the tascam 428 i will most likely use the 16bit instead of 24, so i could use all four lines in.

I know personally yes you can definately run two soundcards, i just was wondering if you could do a little test recording something from soundblaster and something from your tascam at the same time, im wondering if it'd be synched im sure it would...

anyone else who owns this would any of you know?

No i dont use soundforge. cooledit should suffice in all areas of wav editing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top