Recording with pedals?

M

McShredsAlot

New member
Anyone ever do this? And I mean DI. So guitar to pedal, to interface. I have a tuner, and loop pedal but not any effect pedals like distortion, or delay or anything. To me it seems like using a real TS or distortion pedal would get you a better tone than the virtual pedals in Amplitube3 or Guitar Rig. Anyone have experience doing this?
 
Do it all the time.

Sound is subjective, so I'm not going to touch the question of what is better in that regard.

I tend to use my pedals more for live work because I have them, and because they put all the knobs and switches right there where I can get to them. I suppose I could replace them all with some MIDI pedal board controller, but I haven't found one that does quite what I would need, I've already invested in the pedals, and a couple of the pedals on my board are DIY custom jobs which could probably be replaced by software, but I dig building them, so I'd might as well use them.

I use pedals less in recording because anything that comes before the interface will be recorded permanently as part of the sound. There is definitely something to be said for commiting to a sound at tracking time and going with it, but that doesn't always work for the way I build my recordings. For me most of the time I like to have the option to tweak or even automate some settings at some point down the road, even if I never actually change anything. It's nice to have the clean DI sound just in case. It's easy enough to grab both as long as you've got the inputs...

You do need to watch the levels. Most pedals don't really add a lot of total gain from input to output. A distortion might add gain in between, but it usually gets clipped back down to a reasonable volt or two, and most others are essentially unity gain through. But if you're talking about a booster, some fuzzes and possibly some OD pedals, they are specifically meant to give significant gain in order to hit the input of an amplifier with more signal than it "expects" and force it into overdrive. Now, a +4dbu line input can handle anything that a 9V pedal give it, but I can clip a -10dbv input with my booster, and many DI/Instrument inputs are calibrated even higher than that. That is, there is gain on those inputs, and if you hit them with a booster looking to slam the input of your amp sim, you will also likely end up clipping whatever analog stage produces that gain, if not actually clipping the converter itself. That's not necessarily as bad as it sounds if you're just going to distort it even more ITB, but it's another one of those things that can't be undone later in the process.
 
i can do this with my Palmer PDI-09.


but i don't.

it's too much fun playing out of an amp
 
Well, there's also that thing with the latency. Pedals don't have it. Anything you apply ITB will. A little bit of latency is ok, being like taking a couple steps away from the amp, but it starts to add up. CPU usage is also a concern, though a reasonable number of plugins shouldn't hurt that too much.
 
Wait, so you mean recording direct through a pedal and nothing else? Just raw pedal fizz into the DAW? That sucks.

But if you mean using an actual pedal and then going into an amp sim, that could work, although it probably won't be a great as you think it will be.
 
ashcat_lt said:
There is definitely something to be said for commiting to a sound at tracking time and going with it
Click to expand...

Greg_L said:
Wait, so you mean recording direct through a pedal and nothing else? Just raw pedal fizz into the DAW?
Click to expand...
I like to record electric guitars a variety of ways. One way is to use a splitter cable {or splitter box}, one end of which goes straight to the amp and mike that, while the other cable end goes straight through a pedal with whichever sound I want on that pedal, then on this particular kind of guitar recording, I'll either pan the two guitar sounds apart or I'll blend the two to make one sound.
Sometimes I go through two pedals and send each output to an amp and mic them and again, pan or blend. One of my favourite sounds is to do that with a 12 string electro acoustic. Depending on which pedal and/or amp sounds I'm using, it's a pretty heady cocktail.
 
Why won't people just mic an amp anymore? What do people have against amps? When did using an amp become so taboo? Have I just gotten old and too nostalgic?
 
There's nothing taboo about it. It just doesn't work for some people. Especially in "home recording" which can mean so many different things, but more often than not means some situation that is at best suboptimal for cranking up an amp and recording it with a microphone. Most of the time either the amp is too loud for the room (or more often, for the people in other rooms nearby) or the room is too loud for the amp and you get crappy room tone or ambient noise in the tracks. Yes, there are ways around all of these issues, but they're not always easy and almost never cheap. I am lucky now to have space where I could store a variety of amps for different tones and situations, but I don't have the budget to acquire and maintain them.

So for $100 a guy can get the equivalent of thousands of dollars worth of amps, cabinets, mics, pres, AND room treatment. And he can record any time he wants no matter what else is happening the house. If you can't see the benefits, or why it might be so attractive to so many... But I know that you actually do.

More importantly, though, I think that fewer and fewer are buying into the dogmatic idolatry that seems to be your religion. When it really comes down to it, all that any of these things are is a couple of non-linear gain stages surrounded by some filters. They are ways to take what comes out of the guitar and shape it into something that we call tone. If Tone is God, then worship and/or demonization of the objects which are meant to point us toward God is really just distracting us from absolute Truth. So, Greg, do you wanna be a Catholic or a Muslim? I'm a Discordian myself.
 
ashcat_lt said:
There's nothing taboo about it. It just doesn't work for some people. Especially in "home recording" which can mean so many different things, but more often than not means some situation that is at best suboptimal for cranking up an amp and recording it with a microphone. Most of the time either the amp is too loud for the room (or more often, for the people in other rooms nearby) or the room is too loud for the amp and you get crappy room tone or ambient noise in the tracks. Yes, there are ways around all of these issues, but they're not always easy and almost never cheap. I am lucky now to have space where I could store a variety of amps for different tones and situations, but I don't have the budget to acquire and maintain them.

So for $100 a guy can get the equivalent of thousands of dollars worth of amps, cabinets, mics, pres, AND room treatment. And he can record any time he wants no matter what else is happening the house. If you can't see the benefits, or why it might be so attractive to so many... But I know that you actually do.

More importantly, though, I think that fewer and fewer are buying into the dogmatic idolatry that seems to be your religion. When it really comes down to it, all that any of these things are is a couple of non-linear gain stages surrounded by some filters. They are ways to take what comes out of the guitar and shape it into something that we call tone. If Tone is God, then worship and/or demonization of the objects which are meant to point us toward God is really just distracting us from absolute Truth. So, Greg, do you wanna be a Catholic or a Muslim? I'm a Discordian myself.
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That was really stupid.

My main issue is with the over-complication of the whole process. Use an amp, use a sim, both work great. Splitting signals into pedals and DI boxes and re-routing.....it's all just too much. It's DAW masturbation. It's overthinking. It's trying to be too cute.
 
If you have to use amp sim then yes I think running a physical tube screamer in between your interface and guitar sounds better than most of the simulated tube screamers.
 
My point being that nobody is saying that there's anything wrong with using a "real" amp. That other thread may have hinted in that direction, in saying that they were outdated and going away, and sort of implying that only Luddites and dinosaurs are still using them. I don't necessarily agree with that viewpoint. I enjoy playing through a tube amp now and then. I really enjoy playing really fucking loud whenever I can through whatever I can get my hands on. I don't necessarily get a boner every time I see something with a blackface or a diamond grill cloth. I will tell people that they are wrong when they abuse the power of their amplifiers to the detriment of the mix, but I know a lot of pros who actually can be responsible and I'd never try to tell them that I can't take them seriously unless the "get with the times, man!"

OTOH - There's this guy who repeatedly takes a reactionary stance. Even though he occasionally backpedals, he has - time and again, and recently - claimed that certain forms of expression are in fact invalid not for their content but for the methods and/or equipment used. It's not done the right way, so it's not art. Doesn't seem particularly punk rock to me...

And this thread really doesn't have much place for this discussion. Yeah, I know, stream of consciousness, let it go where it goes. But the OP didn't come here saying "Fuck tube amps, I'm going ITB!" He didn't even come and say "Should I go ITB or mic a real amp?" He said "If I'm going ITB, what are some pros and cons of putting pedals before it." The question "Why not just use a real amp?" was kind of answered in the OP. "Because that ain't what we're talking about here." You've got a right to voice the opinion, of course. Any time and anywhere you want, I suppose. Some of use are actually interested in a discussion of the question at hand, though. I frankly appreciated your early contribution, Greg. Then it got weird again.
 
Greg_L said:
Why won't people just mic an amp anymore? What do people have against amps? When did using an amp become so taboo? Have I just gotten old and too nostalgic?
Click to expand...

I do! I haven't worked out sims yet... and the freebies I've tried sound pretty damn bad... user error I expect! :D
 
McShredsAlot said:
Anyone ever do this? And I mean DI. So guitar to pedal, to interface.
Click to expand...

I've not tried that type of pedal use....but I have to wonder how it would sound, because in most cases, pedals are sorta' designed to drive the signal into an amp/cab....so just going from the pedal to a DAW interface.....mmmmm, if I was to just guess, I would think it would sound kinda thin/lifeless etc, compared to how it would sound going to an amp/cab, though I'm sure you would get some kind of sound, assuming you get all the I/O levels matched up well enough.

I'll have to try that in the next couple of days....though now that I think about it, I did something like that not too long ago, I think I was trying to do something with a flange or phase pedal, and I didn't want to go to a guitar amp, I just wanted to apply the FX to the signal from my Hammond organ.....and while the hook-up did work, it just didn't sound all that great, so I abandoned that approach.

Anyway...I kinda get a kick when people ask these types of questions...."How would it sound if I took A and then plugged into B and then added C?" ...I mean, for cryin' out loud, just try it and find out how it would sound!!! :D
No need to have a thread about it.....until maybe AFTER you've tried it and you want to report on your results.
 
ashcat_lt said:
My point being that nobody is saying that there's anything wrong with using a "real" amp. That other thread may have hinted in that direction, in saying that they were outdated and going away, and sort of implying that only Luddites and dinosaurs are still using them. I don't necessarily agree with that viewpoint. I enjoy playing through a tube amp now and then. I really enjoy playing really fucking loud whenever I can through whatever I can get my hands on. I don't necessarily get a boner every time I see something with a blackface or a diamond grill cloth. I will tell people that they are wrong when they abuse the power of their amplifiers to the detriment of the mix, but I know a lot of pros who actually can be responsible and I'd never try to tell them that I can't take them seriously unless the "get with the times, man!"

OTOH - There's this guy who repeatedly takes a reactionary stance. Even though he occasionally backpedals, he has - time and again, and recently - claimed that certain forms of expression are in fact invalid not for their content but for the methods and/or equipment used. It's not done the right way, so it's not art. Doesn't seem particularly punk rock to me...

And this thread really doesn't have much place for this discussion. Yeah, I know, stream of consciousness, let it go where it goes. But the OP didn't come here saying "Fuck tube amps, I'm going ITB!" He didn't even come and say "Should I go ITB or mic a real amp?" He said "If I'm going ITB, what are some pros and cons of putting pedals before it." The question "Why not just use a real amp?" was kind of answered in the OP. "Because that ain't what we're talking about here." You've got a right to voice the opinion, of course. Any time and anywhere you want, I suppose. Some of use are actually interested in a discussion of the question at hand, though. I frankly appreciated your early contribution, Greg. Then it got weird again.
Click to expand...

:laughings:

You're just mad because I don't like your methods. I don't respect your everything is cool and A-OK attitude. Don't take it personally, man. Who am I? I'm nobody. I have no influence whatsoever on your methods or your life. I'm not changing your mind about anything, and you're certainly not changing mine, so what's the big deal? If you don't like what I say, simply don't read it. :)
 
miroslav said:
I've not tried that type of pedal use....but I have to wonder how it would sound, because in most cases, pedals are sorta' designed to drive the signal into an amp/cab....so just going from the pedal to a DAW interface.....mmmmm, if I was to just guess, I would think it would sound kinda thin/lifeless etc, compared to how it would sound going to an amp/cab, though I'm sure you would get some kind of sound, assuming you get all the I/O levels matched up well enough.

I'll have to try that in the next couple of days....though now that I think about it, I did something like that not too long ago, I think I was trying to do something with a flange or phase pedal, and I didn't want to go to a guitar amp, I just wanted to apply the FX to the signal from my Hammond organ.....and while the hook-up did work, it just didn't sound all that great, so I abandoned that approach.

Anyway...I kinda get a kick when people ask these types of questions...."How would it sound if I took A and then plugged into B and then added C?" ...I mean, for cryin' out loud, just try it and find out how it would sound!!! :D
No need to have a thread about it.....until maybe AFTER you've tried it and you want to report on your results.
Click to expand...

I tend to think that an OD/distortion pedal into a software sim won't have too much impact. Most of the good sims do respond to "driving" them harder, and they will clean up if you roll the guitar vol back or pick lighter. But other things like new vs old strings and pickup output has very little effect. It seems that once a guitar signal gets into a sim, it gets treated pretty much the same almost regardless of where it came from. For example, a single coil will still sound like a single coil, and a humbucker will still sound like a humbucker, but two different humbuckers will pretty much sound exactly the same. Whereas in real life, a vintage PAF style HB and an active EMG will sound totally different through an actual amp. To take it even further, pretty much all humbucker guitars sound the same through many of the sims out there. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a Les Paul and a Jackson Dinky through the commonly used software sims. I've tried this stuff, that's what I've seen. YMMV and all that.
 
Yeah...I find that sims will "homogenize" most everything....been saying that for years, and one of the main reasons I don't like them that much or use them.

What I meant about the pedal into the amp VS going DI/DAW is that amp reacts with the pedal in a more organic way, and there IS that constant variation, and the amp takes the pedal effect and makes it bloom...or you could say the pedal makes the amp bloom....either way you say it.
I don't think you get that going DI.....but of course, it will give you some kind of sound, and if you like that sound, then you use it. Whatever works.
 
Just gonna throw out my opinion here real quick.

Want great distorted guitar tone? Spend the time finding the right tube amp/guitar/speakers and then spend the time finding the right mic/placement on the speaker cabinet.

Don't want to spend the time/money, use a sim.

I have no issue using amp sims for clean guitar tracks. Actually, many times it can be better.

Nothing I have ever seen or heard can come close to the way a tube amp sounds when recorded correctly.


Yeah, this depends a whole bunch on what genre is being recorded. But there is just no way I have ever found that can accurately simulate the balls of a tube driven amp. And that does not mean just any amp. It has to work with any given player, their gear, and their playing.

To argue about what the future holds seems quite redundant to me. The future ain't here, and as far as I see and hear, tube amps are what is working now.

There are some decent sounding sims out there, but nothing I would replace the real deal with.


Just my opinion. :)
 
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