Recording with a plan?

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CMiller

CMiller

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I was just listening to Doc's new contribution and asked him this same question...

When you sit down to record your composition, do you know exactly what you are going to do or are you like me and rely on happy discoveries?

For instance, when I sit down to record a tune, I know what the guitar will be doing, I almost always start out with guitar. I have no idea (usually) what the bass guitar or lead guitar will be doing. I certainly have no ideas about back ground vocals. I just wait for the finished song to inspire the rest as I go.

I'm curious to hear how you guys do it.
 
Depends....sometimes it's just words wantin' a tune, sometimes it's a tune needing words...the funny thing is, I'm not a very accomplished musician, and if I pick up a guitar whatever comes out is so different from what I would be noodling on a keyboard, so I sorta write around whatever instrument is it I'm playing...and because I'm not accomplished, the "happy surprises" for me end up as the finished product, mainly out of ignorance...lol.....gibs
 
It's on two levels.

Sometimes, an interesting bit of music just happens - happy discovery - and then you have to tune in and wonder about or ask for lyrics. On the same level, sometimes I get a word or phrase or line, and then have to go fishing for the music. In a way, that one's a bit easier, because there's often a rhythm already built into the words.

Sometimes, and this is the best, I get an idea rather than words or music - the happy discovery is conceptual rather than musical or lyrical. Then I go looking for the words and music (and when I do, sometimes happy discoveries happen at that level).

Gee, I've got a new name for the group. "dobro and the happy discoveries". Now, if I just had a group...
 
I usually have an idea of what I'm gonna do with some of the instruments, but its not like I hear it perfectly before I begin tracking. I too, usually begin with guitar, and you're right, its a lot easier laying down a bass line after you have a track or two down. Another thing I've found is you can sometimes hear melodies for background wocals, or lead fills if you listen to closely to the chords, like when you start hitting one string harder than usual and maybe change chords with the string still ringing. You guys are gonna think I'm crazy but it happens sometimes, particularly with minor chords. But rarely do I have the whole song in my head before I record it, and have the song end up that way. Particularly if you have 8 tracks or more, the creative process just takes off after you have a couple of tracks playing simultaneously in your monitor.
 
Seeing as I've never had a medium to record onto (until I bought a VS-1880, last week), and seeing as I'm a singer first, pianist second, guitarist third, I tend to either hear the symphony in my noggen and then try to do it justice on the keys, or strum the acoustic first and fit a melody on top of it.

I've also, on occasion, come up with a song after having set a certain "mood" with a series of chord changes. I loop 'em until something of value appears.

Footnote: Often, my catch phrase will start off as the mumbling of good-sounding syllables (i.e. which naturally fit the new melody) I turn those into something coherent and voilà! I've got myself a hook!

I rarely write poetry and try to fit music onto it, however. I guess I'm a musician first, then, lyricist second. Kinda sad, really. I'd rather be Bob Dylan than... lets say... Richard Marx. If you know what I mean... Call me a snob, but I hope to one day write something that will stick, culturally. And musicality be damned, if it's powerfully written. But that's just me.

And God knows, I ain't there yet. Right now, I'd settle for being Richard Marx's hair-stylist... (ouch)
 
Along the same lines, I generally start with a riff that sets a mood for a particular subject matter. That is usually determined by the Key I am working in. The riff then gets developed into a rythym track. Being the non percussionist Metalhead that I means struggling with programing in the drum track that I want(this process seems to take a couple life times). After the Drums and guitar rythym are on tape I then do the Bass line wich for me is the easiest of the project. Then the lead track, this generally take me for ever to develop the lead I'm happy with. I have one tune in F# that I've been working on for 2&1/2 years that is no closer to burning on CD than the day of its inception. Once the lead is on tape, then the vocals(if any). Then its time to mix down to my Cpu to prepare to burn to CD and thats when the SH!t really starts!
 
Hey CMiller!
I hope these ideas work for you - I'm dying to hear a new song from you.

Here's my "formula"

All of the songs I've written can generally be broken down into three different classes.

1)Very Structured - intro, verse, pre-chorus(sometimes), chorus, verse, pre-chorus, chorus, solo, bridge (sometimes and sometimes before solo), then sometimes another verse and pre-chorus and then finally another chorus (usually repeated)

2)Slightly Stuctured - this may have a 2 verses and choruses but then radically change - splitting the song into tow halves... change may be a tempo change or key change or just a mood change

3) no structure - these songs follow no set patterns and are by far the hardest songs to get sounding right. After all, these songs are all over the place... but you don't want it to sound all over the place, it still needs to sound coherent.

For me personally, the guitar riffs are the most important parts of the song - that's cos I write riff based music. I'll either sit down and write a bunch of individual riffs or go through my riffs tape. I believe anyone writing guitar music should have a rough riffs tape on which to record little ideas that may come in handy later.

Sometimes when I write a riff I'll imediately know what kind riff needs to follow it - say for a verse to pre-chorus change and so then I'll keep those two riffs together. Basically then I'll either listen to or remember the riffs that I've written and try and match up the ones that sound cool with each other. To me a song has to have good key changes. Sometimes I'll have two riffs that I really like together but I'll transpose one of them up or down a few steps two get the key changes which I think sound best.

Once I've got a song planned out in my head I'll roughly record it on my 424. I keep this set up ready to go with a mic in front of my amp that never moves - just in case inspiration hits me when I least expect it.

At this stage I may record a rough outline to a solo. I'll then sit down and program my drum tracks, re record my guitar parts onto the 'puter and record the bass.

Once this all done then I'll start to think about lyrics!! This may sound a little weird but it works for me. Generally I have feeling or some idea what riffs can be easily sung over and I generally try to make sure that my chorus riffs suit the mood that I'm trying to convey eg... if it's an aggressive song I'll make sure the chorus riff is suited to an aggresive style of vocal delivery.

My method probably isn't the strongest method for writing... leaving vocal melodies to literally the last minute - but I find it works for me. This is probably an artifact of the fact that I find it very hard to write vocal melodies without any music.

...almost done :D

This may sound a little strange too... but what I do to work out the vocal melody is to just sing whatever words come into my head as I listen to the music... Generally it's just garbage that comes out, but it helps get the phrasing and the timing of the vocals. This way I find that I am not constrained to try and fit in pre written lyrics - by doing this I know exactly how long each vocal line has to be and can write lyrics around my "garbage lyrics" strcuture.

Sorry I've gone on for so long... I don't know if I've explained things all that well but I feel if I go on for too much longer Slack or Sonusman will have to produce one of their mammoth posts to out do this one :D

[This message has been edited by Cooperman (edited 06-05-2000).]
 
Thanks for the input guys, keep them coming!

Thank you for the compliment Coop, I'm actually working on a new one to post, but drums are holding the thing up...and I've been lazy.

It's funny Coop, I work much the same way you do. I never, and I mean never, have lyrics or a melody in my head when I record. I do the same thing when writing lyrics, come up with what I call "placeholder" lyrics (usually about my dog) that are meant to develop the melody. I find that with nonsense lyrics I'm much more likely to take chances because I'm not tied to any particular phrase.

The other thing I do is give the songs bogus names until I have lyrics written. For instance, my song "Reach" was called "Bicycle" until the last minute because my wife said it was a song she could really bicycle to. Many times I just give songs numbers until I have lyrics.
 
This has been my M.O. lately:

1. An idea for a vocal melody comes to me while I'm doing something else. I don't force it, it just happens though not as frequently as I would like it.

2. If the melody passes my 2-day test, meaning that my mind still likes it enough to remember for 2-days after I initially think of it, then I work out the verse and chorus structure in MIDI, trying to fill in what appear to be holes. Some holes might be in the verse, the chorus, or in some backup or transition melodies. Sometimes the bridge is a huge gaping hole. I don't worry about the bridge for now.

3. I try to figure out the appropriate chord progression and see how it sounds with the melody. I fiddle around with Jammer Pro and Gigasampler a lot for the "see how it sounds" part.

4. If a bridge is still needed, I try to come up with a progression for it, then a melody. I'm usually jamming and improvising at this point using vocals or guitar. When I like the bridge progression and melody, then I keep it. I loop back to 2 as many times until I'm satisfied with the whole.

5. I come up with lyrics.

6. I flesh out the other sounds, appropriate to the mood of the lyrics. Sometimes a major rearrangement is needed to suit the lyrics. If the rearrangement is too much work, I try to come up with another set of lyrics instead. Then I try to convince some musician friends to come over and play as a favor, and record.


I usually get stuck at step 5 because I suck at writing lyrics, which probably also explains why I come across it so late in the game. I shouldn't have neglected all those poetry writing exercises in school. I do have some lyrics, but they act as mnemonic placeholders for the melody and sound ridiculous, like "take out the trash and scrape the toast." Lately I get stuck at step 6 for a while too, since I'm trying to get my voice back in shape after a long layoff from singing. Plus the last time I played with a band was in 1986. If anything interesting happens during steps 5 or 6, I'll let you know. :)
 
No idea where it's gonna go.
It's either MIDI synth or acoustic guitar that gets it started.
My best stuff happens on the first take.
That tune that started CMiller on this thread for example. Cat Brains as well. Both started with a stereo MIDI track that I auditioned numerous times to see if there was anything I could add on synth to complete the piece. The lyrics/guitar solos pretty much just came to me as I sang/played them. I took note of them, took a deep breath and hit record on the PC.
 
Songwriting is always a jumbled mess. The best stuff starts out with about a litre of Jack Daniels, some of which ends up on the guitar. I keep a 4-track on the ready in front of my practice amp, and pray i can find the Record button under all the cords/Chords. Now that all the preparation is done, i beat on the guitar for several hours thinking of stories and pictures and other things I want the music to represent. Take copius notes on the concepts in my head. Once i get something that frames the basic concept, I throw it on tape, and leave it alone for a couple of days. When I happen to come across the notes I took, I generally pull out the corresponding tape, listen to it, and throw 2 or 3 tracks of random noise over it. If I happened to have a metronome going, I'll let that play solo, and take at least one track without any harmonic mooring. The tape s then placed into a stasis bin (er, oK so it's an old suitcase.) Leave sit for minimum 2 weeks. Whenever I come across it after that, I will listen through, with the original track going, and fading in on various other 'sketches' I laid down. The whole mess then gets "SORTED", where the best bits get taken out, space gets added, and a basic one guitar riff/chord sturucture/noise pattern is set. The remainder of the noise gets sifted for and likely leads and fills. Drums are not my responsibility, nor is bass, so at this point, it's ready for presentation to the unlucky people I play with.

In summary, Whiskey+4 track+Guitar=Idea
Keep lotsa notes, and keep the concept you are shooting for in mind. Add another dose of noise and alcohol and mix for my typical results. Of course I occassionally get lucky and pull the entire thing out in one lucky, error free take. Yeah, right, believe that and i have some land in Florida to sell ya cheap! :)
 
I generally just roll tape (or in my case, disc) and go. I edit afterwards and build my tunes on that foundation. I try to keep all of my cool musical ideas recorded because I tend to forget what the hell I was doing to begin with. Sometimes they pan out, sometimes not. Good luck.
 
Oh yeah, (I wuz fergittin' this part) more often than not, though, I just steal stuff from obscure and/or not yet signed artists who've confided their lax copyright protection habits to me. Anybody got anything for me? I'm in need of a hit!
 
Hey, CMiller...
Try leaving the drums off. Sharpen up the rhythm guitar - bashing an acoustic can give a lot of percussive feel and make sure the bass has plenty of punch.
Won't work every time, but it may help remove a block.
All the best,
Drumless Delso
 
I write instrumentals...and have only added lyrics to one or two songs (long after they are finished). I write some songs for solo accoustic piano and others for a midi set-up with or without the piano. Usually, I hear a pretty good phrase in my head which includes the melody and basic harmony. Unfortunately, while I can usually develop 8 (what sound to me like) good bars, I then noodle around for days to months trying to find another section which sounds like it goes with the first. That usually entails playing the first section through several times and then just taking a stab at the next 8. Usually they suck, sometimes after experimenting and noodling for weeks or months, they sound okay. I will continue to develop those 2nd (or 3rd) 8 bars and if I still like them after a week or so...I got a keeper! For me, the first part (8 measures or so) is inspiration, while I'm driving, at work, taking a walk... after that I really work at it.
 
Sometimes I have a completely finished song that I can play from start to finish with my guitar or on piano.(I can work all my songs on both instruments). Then I just let inspiration take over as far as harmonies and leads etc.

Other times, I just hit record and start playing and sometimes something cool happens. Other times I'll have a small idea that I build on. Like some of you guys mentioned, lyrics are the tough part for me, although I think I am getting better at them. For me it helps to try and make the lyrics conversational- like I am talking to someone.

Sometimes I write a complete lyric, write music to it, then I rewrite the lyric completely. I usually keep the music whenever I write.

Tucci
 
I read that "Yesterday" came to Paul McCartney in his sleep.

Do you guys ever get a weird feeling that the music you think up is writing itself? Sometimes I'll write a musical phrase that comes so naturally I am sure i have heard it before (like there is someone singing in my ear) - but I can never think of any song or tune that contains it. It's weird. This never happens to me with lyrics though.

Tucci
 
Tucci i know exactly what you mean. Most of our songs come from jamming a lot until we hit something we can use but occasionally something just appears as if from nowhere and voila... a song is born.

but we are all crap lyricists... damn.

oh well.
 
There's a question:

Does anyone here feel that they are stronger at writing lyrics than music?

I can't imagine that all of us are better at music than lyrics - if so, what would that mean?

Tucci
 
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