Recording Vocals

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bloodsoaked
  • Start date Start date
Bloodsoaked

Bloodsoaked

Death Metal Freak
I like to do two tracks for each of my vocals, but sometimes it is just to hard to get the two track sung and matched up just right and it leaves it with a bit of an echo sound. Is it just a bad idea to take the first vocal track, copy and paste it to the second vocals track? I heard that this can cause "phasing" (not really sure what that is). Even if I copy and paste the vocal track and slightly move the second track behind the first track will this still cause phasing? I use the two vocal tracks to thicken up the vocals.

Any and all comments would be great. Thank you.


Peter
 
Yeah you can do that. You can track it once, copy/past it to another track. Leave the original dry, only play with volume. Do whatever with the other, and adjust that volume too and try blending them, gives a fuller sound and more versatility with fx.

EDIT: You're prbably getting the echo sound because although you think you're singing at the same time as you did before, you're really not. I do that with guitar alot... I think I'll be kickin ass on my second track and replay... Sounds like I was smokin crack cuz there so far off. Use headphones, make them loud, use a metronome... if you wanna over dub like that you have to be 100% it overdubs right or you get that echo.
 
Anomaly Design said:
Yeah you can do that. You can track it once, copy/past it to another track. Leave the original dry, only play with volume. Do whatever with the other, and adjust that volume too and try blending them, gives a fuller sound and more versatility with fx.
Click to expand...

So no FX (EQ, reverb and so on) on the first track, and on the 2nd track use all the effects as I normally would? This would not cause phasing? Thank you...


Peter
 
Anomaly Design said:
EDIT: You're prbably getting the echo sound because although you think you're singing at the same time as you did before, you're really not. I do that with guitar alot... I think I'll be kickin ass on my second track and replay... Sounds like I was smokin crack cuz there so far off. Use headphones, make them loud, use a metronome... if you wanna over dub like that you have to be 100% it overdubs right or you get that echo.
Click to expand...


LOL...yeah that is the problem. Trying to sing the second time around just as I did the first track. That is why I wanted to just copy and paste. Just qurious about all the phasing stuff.


Peter
 
What kind of vocals are you doing? Going by your name I'd guess metal, thats what I do. If I'm right, then it actually can be a better idea to overdub. It really helps to reinforce, its just kinda hard. I know Poison the well does it.
 
Try tracking the double just one phrase/line at a time. Play it a few times to get the timing and phrasing right, then set your daw to loop that section and just track it until you nail it...then, on to the next line. Takes a while, but it's definitely better than copy/paste, which only makes it louder.
 
You can get more than just louder by copy/paste to second track by various offset, pan, eq, efx, etc. differences, but unless you do a lot of paramater automation, it ends up being a static difference. By doubletracking though, those differences and more are inhierently dynamic, and therefore more interesting. Get it as close as you can, it takes practice and a bunch of takes. If your software allows it, dice it up at the places it slips out, and slide them into time (easy in Samplitude), and then use volume curves or fader automation to duck out any rough spots you couldn't fix. In general, the dub vox track should be much lower in volume than the lead vox track. Usually the best spot is where you almost can't hear it, till you mute it and hear the vocal thin out, then un-mute it and it fills out again.
 
Bloodsoaked said:
So no FX (EQ, reverb and so on) on the first track, and on the 2nd track use all the effects as I normally would? This would not cause phasing? Thank you...


Peter
Click to expand...
I nearly always leave the dry track and with a higher volume than the copied track/tracks. Then I apply heavier FX than normal to the copied track/tracks and set the volume to where they are barely audible and blend them with the dry track. You get more than just volume by doing so but as Robert D points out you have a better dynamic sound by double tracking.
 
Hmmmmmmmmm....I always put the same effects of both tracks and both track at the same volume. Is this just bad practice or just bad overall? I have just finished recording my third song and I am in the process of recording the vocals for the 3rd song. On my first two songs I did vocals (sung) for all the tracks but on (not a copy) but sang them all. On the 3rd song keeping the tracks lined up is a bit harded. I will try the 2nd track at a lover volume. I am interested in hearing it....thank you...
 
No one seems to be talking about phasing, so I'll fill you in on my limited knowledge. I'm no expert, so if I'm wrong someone please speak up. Now, we all know sound comes in sort of waves. Phasing happens when you have the same sound wave twice, but one is slightly after (or before) the other. That is, when one wave is high the other one is low. Many things could cause this. A common one mentioned in relation to home recording is when people use two mics for recording a guitar cab or something. If one mic is further from the cab, it will have a slight delay on the sound and there could be phase cancellation. If you copy and paste a vocal track, there probably won't be any problems unless you move one track slightly. A quick google search turned up this site.
http://www.sfu.ca/sca/Manuals/ZAAPf/p/phase.html
 
seanr said:
No one seems to be talking about phasing, so I'll fill you in on my limited knowledge. I'm no expert, so if I'm wrong someone please speak up. Now, we all know sound comes in sort of waves. Phasing happens when you have the same sound wave twice, but one is slightly after (or before) the other. That is, when one wave is high the other one is low. Many things could cause this. A common one mentioned in relation to home recording is when people use two mics for recording a guitar cab or something. If one mic is further from the cab, it will have a slight delay on the sound and there could be phase cancellation. If you copy and paste a vocal track, there probably won't be any problems unless you move one track slightly. A quick google search turned up this site.
http://www.sfu.ca/sca/Manuals/ZAAPf/p/phase.html
Click to expand...

Phasing occurs when a waves that are similar are mixed. When two identical waves are combined to make the superposition. A superposition is the result of two (or more) mixed waves. Lets say at given point '#1' wave 'A' has a value of 10 (arbitrary units) and wave 'B' has a value of -7 (waves go above and below '0') the value at point #1 of the superpostion wave will have a value of +3. 10-7=3...

In respect to what you're refering to, If those are the same vocal track you will get a reduction of volume at that point. This can also work in reverse making that point louder. If the signals are identical it will be more of a consistant effect. If you are recording two channels for the same source more complex reaction can occur in which only certain frequencies are canceled etc. etc... Hope that helps
 
phasing

Phasing is also a catch all explanation when something goes wrong.

I had two mics recording my band live. A stereo pair. Everything was working great. We invited another guitarist up to jam. One of the mics went to crap but the other one sounded fine. The only difference was the new guitarist.

So I say, "Must have been phasing or something.", meaning "I don't really know what went wrong."
 
OH!! so that's why I too have been having problems. I am recording a Tanzanian rap duo. The first problem is that I don't speak swaheli, so I can't tell if the words are coming out clearly. The BIG problem is that these guys insist on using 3 or 4 layers of each verse. Recently, one of the rappers got tired of messing up his overdubs and decided to have me copy his main vocal. Now, I'm attempting to mix and I am having trouble making these copied tracks blend well. I want it to sound as if he really did those overdubs but it just sounds like crap.
 
My god! I can't believe the amount of mis-information in this thread.

The answer to the original question is: NO, you can't just copy the 1st take to the second track, it won't accomplish anything except make it louder. If you delay it a bit, you will get phase cancellation because the two are exactly the same.

Phasing is not a catch-all explanation. It is what happens when similar wave forms interact.

Please follow the link that seanr posted, it explains phase very well.
 
Copy/Paste Vocals

Copying and pasting vocals is not a bad idea. If I want a quick fix when I'm tracking vocals, I'll duplicate the first track and offset the new track by 10-15 ms, depending on taste, then pan hard L and R. This creates a HUGE difference. And sure, these tracks are not 100% in phase b/c technically they are the same wave, offset, which necessarily means that the troughs and crests are slightly (10-15 ms) off, but that is NOT a big deal.

Whenever you are recording drums, for example, you will always have phasing issues. There are mics all over the drums set. Tom 1 not only infiltrates its mic, but also the mic of Tom2, snare, overheads, etc... Do you really think it hits all these mics at the same exact point in its wavelength? Clearly, the answer is No. The point is this: Phasing is NOT the end-all be-all.

someone suggested that to copy and paste guitar tracks, add delay of 11 ms to one, and a delay of 23 ms to the other, then pan hard L and R. I tried it on vocals and it sounded quite good. It actually sounded very natural.

Anyway, hope this helps...

PS - I'm trying to find the post on creating a kick drum tunnel. I read it on here maybe a year ago... Suggestions??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top