Recording tips - how to get the most out of what I've got

T

TimLyons

New member
My band will start recording our first demo as a full band in just a couple weeks, and we've got the following crap to work with:

Mics:

Behringer ECM8000s (2)
Shure SM58
AT Pro 25
Radio Shack 33-3032 (the one that was talked about on here for a bit)

Mixer/Rack Gear:

Behringer MX802A mixer
Behringer Autocom Pro compressor
BBE Sonic Maximizer

Might be getting a headphone amp, it'd make things easier...

Software/plugins:

Cool Edit Pro 2.0
Antares Auto-tune 3 plugin
Antares Mic-modeler plugin
Izotope Ozone plugin
Numerous other plugins (the names elude me... Waves is one pack I have, another one with "blue" in front of all of the plugin names)

Amps/Direct gear:

Line 6 POD 2.0
Peavey Supreme half-stack (with a Marshall VS412A cab)
Crate 120W SS bass amp (got a DI box built in, I believe)

Drums:

CB 5-piece kit, double-bass pedal, all cymbals are Zildjin (I know that's not spelled right) A-Customs

Bass/Guitars:

LTD 5-string bass (active pickups and onboard EQ)
Gibson Les Paul Special SL (stock)
Kramer Focus (with Quadrails - I dig the sound of the pickups)

Computer:

Don't know the processor (600mHz, maybe?), but the sound card is a Tutle Beach, I know that much.


What we need to record:

Drums
Bass
Guitar
Keyboards
Vocals

We also have about $150 to work with after the next couple shows we're playing - this is gonna go toward my brilliant "let's-cut-the-room-reverb" idea involving making a frame out of PVC pipe and using that to hang blankets around whatever we're recording at the time. It's also going toward the headphone amp.

So, can it be done, and done fairly well? I know I want to mic guitars as well as run them direct... not sure about the bass. Vocals, I'm LOST as to how to get it NOT to sound like karaoke with that setup. Keyboard, we're probably running direct. I could also use any drum micing tips (I've read MANY articles on it, but any tips you guys have that's not been on a web site out there might be cool). :)

Thanks for any help,

Tim Lyons
Lead Guitar/Vocals, L.I.E.
http://www.liemusic.com
 
I am thinking about starting a thread here on how to get the most out of a small limited input mixer. THere are ways to make it go a LONG way... too bad your small mixer kind of sucks ass.
Get a headphone amp (ha-43 from Full Compass are only $43 or so, way cheap) and about 4 pairs of cheap closed headphones (AKG k55's for about $40 a pair or less, Full Compass)
The 802 has 4 mono mic inputsd right?
Run two overheads, one snare, one kick... use the close in mic techniqe I talked about in the drums thread. Cover your ceiling with something and deaden the room if it sucks balls.
That sucks up all of your mic inputs, and they should go direct out to your recorder... now plug the pod into a line in channel, and plug the bass out or DI out in to another line in channel. Use your aux buss to ship the signal to the headphone amp and hence to your headphones... mix to taste, record each drm track at higest possible levels without clipping. Once you have your drums tracked, you can move the mics to a real amp or start adding in guitars and bass and vocals.
Pretty simple. Easy as pie.
Maybe I'll start working on that thread as a tip-of -the -week kinda deal.
 
By the way, the purpose of the headphones and pod and D.I. is to eliminate any sound in the room except for the drums you are recording. You can hear it all on headphones, but without, you should hear nothing but drums.
 
We know how we're micing the drums and taking care of room treatment (for the most part, but don't be surprised if I ask about that on here sometime later). We also know how we're going to record drums - I'm going to lay a guitar track with my POD to a click track, and the drummer will record drums on that. Then I will scrap the POD track and mic my amp, maybe lay another POD track to fill in frequencies, but I want to keep miced amp sound as much as possible.

What I mainly need help on are bass and vocals. How do I get them recorded well with the shit I've got?
 
Out of what you have, I'd try the SM58 first for vocals--but don't be afraid to try the Radio shacks with a pop filter. As for the bass, if you can do the same thing as what you are doing with the guitar, run a direct bass line to the the Autocom and work with the setting a bit to get the best sound you can.

I did some demos a long time ago direct to cassette--three mics on the drums, one mic on the guitar amp, and the bass and second guitar direct. We'd record a take, make adjustments and do a couple more until we got a good mix--like the old days. You could try this method and add the vocals later. We did them live and it all worked pretty well.

I used the blanket hung over the drums trick and it worked pretty well. The most important thing is to get a good mix and a great performance. If the music is good, and the instruments are balanced, you should be able to come up with a decent demo of your band.

For the drums, use the EM8000's as a stereo pair--overheads--panned left and right. AT on the kick. 58 or RS on the snare. Your choice. Put the other dynamic on the guitar amp. Bass direct. Keys direct. Record it all live. Get your guitar amp far away from the drums and I think you might be surprised what you can do.
 
I already know that we are not going to be recording this stuff live, so that should simplify matters a bit. My drummer is definitely accustomed to playing along to a click track and/or previously recorded track with accuracy as far as timing and with some energy. I know this 'cause I walked in while he was playing drums to Dimmu Borgir on his headset...

...I was like "Whoa, dude."

Since I have to "engineer" the whole thing I'm going to have to man the mixer and everything. The headphone amp is mainly so both him and I can monitor what's going on at any given time with the click track, the single guitar track to the click, and the drum track itself. It'll just be a controlled feed of what the computer is returning to us as sound - We'll hear the tracks how they're being laid down on hard disk.

For the drums we are using the 4 mic method - AT on kick, 33-3032 on snare, ECM8000 on overheads. I'm considering using the compressor initially to independently compress bass and snare from the rest of the drum mix, since they would need a different level of compression than the rest. Then again, I'm going to try just about anything to make them sound decent. Anyone have any opinions on the independent compression of bass and snare? I can also mix in a little compression to the overheads if needed, so I think it will work one way or another.

Guitar, like I said, I think I'm going to try two rhythm tracks miced (with the 33-3032 and SM58, or a mix of the two), one rhythm track POD, most lead guitar POD. Probably do most clean parts on an acoustic, which I am familiar with micing well at this point. :)

Bass, I was considering micing with the AT and running direct and mixing the two. Any suggested mic placements?

Vocals, I was CONSIDERING using a Behringer to supplement the SM58, but I thought of phase issues that might arise... anyone think I'll have a problem?

Finally, keyboards. Direct, 'nuff said. Add effects later maybe, and we're only using keyboards on one or two songs.

Anyone see any problems or perhaps some potential improvements on any of these ideas? I'm thinking I'll have these ideas and then face cold, harsh reality later while laying tracks down, so any analysis of the previously outlined method is welcome. Rip it completely apart, I'll be grateful.
 
I still dont understand why you dont spend $45 on a headphone amp and $60 on 3 pairs of Sennheiser HD 202's and track the drums as a band. It'll have much more feel that way. You are direct out on the preamps right? You arent submixing drums at recording, are you, straight through the board? Thats the worst in many cases.
 
Hmmm, that looks like it IS what you are doing. I would assume the Turtle only has 2 inputs, left and right? Ouch. Pan the over heads about 10 and 2, and the most common levels that will work in a mix is kick 0, snare -5, overheads -10... that is considering everything was gain staged properly and hot .
 
Little off topic, but I'd like to commend Tim for actually asking how to make the most of what he has. Seems like a lot of the threads focus just on gear (which is important) but isn't everything. Not to be critical.
 
tubedude said:
Hmmm, that looks like it IS what you are doing. I would assume the Turtle only has 2 inputs, left and right? Ouch. Pan the over heads about 10 and 2, and the most common levels that will work in a mix is kick 0, snare -5, overheads -10... that is considering everything was gain staged properly and hot .
Click to expand...

Yeah, we have to submix. I'd love to spend $300-400 I don't have on a new soundcard for someone else's computer... but I just can't do that, unfortunately. So I gotta deal with submixing. Thanks for the panning and level tips, though. :) You have to realize all of our recording gear is mainly coming from me, who didn't originally intend to be recording drums when I got into it all.

I appreciate the drum tips, like I said. What I'm mainly looking for, though, is bass and vocal recording tips.
 
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