Z
Zobi
New member
Actually, I just found out that 24 track 2" was used on most of their albums. Oh well.......Zobi said:
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D
doris
Member
hi zobi,
confused yet? i was in your shoes a couple years ago. i decided to use both. as you can see, everybody has their own opinions on this. here's mine.
i think first you need to decide where you want to go with this recording thing. are you going to release your stuff? are you going to record others for money? or are you just doing this for fun? if it is the former two, then your probably going to want higher end stuff. but if it is the latter, then don't stress so much, just get what you can afford and learn how to make that sound good. be aware that you are entering the first stage of what i've come to know as GAS (Gear Aquisition Syndrome). say you found the cash to buy a 2" 24 or 16 track, you would then "need" expensive mics and preamps, better instruments, sound treatment for your recording space, effects, patchbays, cabling, etc, etc, infinity. i find myself putting off personal projects until i get that peice of gear that would make it "just perfect". so what happens in tyhe meantime? nothing. not bad sounding recordings, no recordings. anyway, be aware that it is very easy to get bogged down in gear buying decisions. the more you learn about gear, the more you will feel that what you have is inadequate.
that being said, you have to start somewhere. this is what I think of your plans:
"1) I record all the instruments that will be in a song onto a tape. For example, I record 4 bars. That way, every single sound will have the analog sound/warmth. After that I transfer that into a software program where I copy and paste, mute, chop until I have a complete song. Then I could either mix in the software and than transfer back onto a tape for mastering or I would go back to tape after the song is complete and mix in the analog domain. Would mixing in software or in analog domain make a difference (sonically)?"
this is basically what i do. record all your tracks onto a multitrack tape machine then mix to 2 tracks with the mixer and dump it into the computer. remember, if you want to keep everything separate you will have to have A/D converter for every track. so if you are using an 8 track machine you'll need an 8-channel a/d converter. you could use the mixer and sum the multitrack to 2 channels (stereo) and send that to the sound card. you won't need as many channels of converter, but you won't have as much freedom in editing. you COULD send the individual tracks to the computer 1 or 2 at a time and then sync them up in the digital domain, but you'll probably need a higher end tape machine to do that, as the cheaper stuff may have small fluctuations in speed that would make syncing tracks very difficult if not impossible. I use an OTARI MTR90 1" 8-track and the tape transport on it is solid enough that i haven't had much trouble doing just that, although 90% of the time i just use the 8 tracks on the tape and stop there. what i would suggest is to get a 1/2" 8-track like an otari mx5050 or tascam 48 or even a 1/4" 4 track (otari made one), record just the beats/drums/bass onto it, then mix that to 2 tracks into a computer, then record the rest of the song in the digital domain. alot of the sound of tape (at least for drums) is the lo mid bump on bassy instruments. the better tape machines have a wider frequency response and better noise specs but for bass and drums i think you would be fine with a narrow format machine. then you could take advantage of the wide frequency range of digital for whatever else. and mix in the box at least for now. i'll let someone else cover the pros and cons of mixing in and out of the box. for now just mix with the software (you would need 8 channels of D/A to mix in the analog domain).
"2) Another way I though about would be skipping the first step - recording onto a tape. I would record directly into a software program, compose the song and then transfer to a tape. What I don't know is if I'd loose any of the "fat sound" this way, since the initial analog step would be missing. Does what I'm asking make any sense? Is there a difference in the sound depending on where in the process recording on a tape takes place?"
this would be much simpler. actually, you could just start with an all digital setup, then you could add a tape machine later if you still wanted one. as far as losing the analog sound, i don't know. i haven't done much mixing to 2-track tape. i would imagine you would get much of the same effect, maybe a little more tape compression with this method since you are dealing with a wider track width? i can say this, i can tell a significant difference between things tracked to tape and things tracked to digital on MY setup.
ok, i hope that all this makes sense. you might want to do some searches here and at TapeOp on things like mixing to tape and analog/digital hybrid setups and info on specific tape machines. you'll definitely find no shortage of digital vs analog debates, but if you wade through the flaming you'll find plenty of good info. good luck.
--Doris
confused yet? i was in your shoes a couple years ago. i decided to use both. as you can see, everybody has their own opinions on this. here's mine.
i think first you need to decide where you want to go with this recording thing. are you going to release your stuff? are you going to record others for money? or are you just doing this for fun? if it is the former two, then your probably going to want higher end stuff. but if it is the latter, then don't stress so much, just get what you can afford and learn how to make that sound good. be aware that you are entering the first stage of what i've come to know as GAS (Gear Aquisition Syndrome). say you found the cash to buy a 2" 24 or 16 track, you would then "need" expensive mics and preamps, better instruments, sound treatment for your recording space, effects, patchbays, cabling, etc, etc, infinity. i find myself putting off personal projects until i get that peice of gear that would make it "just perfect". so what happens in tyhe meantime? nothing. not bad sounding recordings, no recordings. anyway, be aware that it is very easy to get bogged down in gear buying decisions. the more you learn about gear, the more you will feel that what you have is inadequate.
that being said, you have to start somewhere. this is what I think of your plans:
"1) I record all the instruments that will be in a song onto a tape. For example, I record 4 bars. That way, every single sound will have the analog sound/warmth. After that I transfer that into a software program where I copy and paste, mute, chop until I have a complete song. Then I could either mix in the software and than transfer back onto a tape for mastering or I would go back to tape after the song is complete and mix in the analog domain. Would mixing in software or in analog domain make a difference (sonically)?"
this is basically what i do. record all your tracks onto a multitrack tape machine then mix to 2 tracks with the mixer and dump it into the computer. remember, if you want to keep everything separate you will have to have A/D converter for every track. so if you are using an 8 track machine you'll need an 8-channel a/d converter. you could use the mixer and sum the multitrack to 2 channels (stereo) and send that to the sound card. you won't need as many channels of converter, but you won't have as much freedom in editing. you COULD send the individual tracks to the computer 1 or 2 at a time and then sync them up in the digital domain, but you'll probably need a higher end tape machine to do that, as the cheaper stuff may have small fluctuations in speed that would make syncing tracks very difficult if not impossible. I use an OTARI MTR90 1" 8-track and the tape transport on it is solid enough that i haven't had much trouble doing just that, although 90% of the time i just use the 8 tracks on the tape and stop there. what i would suggest is to get a 1/2" 8-track like an otari mx5050 or tascam 48 or even a 1/4" 4 track (otari made one), record just the beats/drums/bass onto it, then mix that to 2 tracks into a computer, then record the rest of the song in the digital domain. alot of the sound of tape (at least for drums) is the lo mid bump on bassy instruments. the better tape machines have a wider frequency response and better noise specs but for bass and drums i think you would be fine with a narrow format machine. then you could take advantage of the wide frequency range of digital for whatever else. and mix in the box at least for now. i'll let someone else cover the pros and cons of mixing in and out of the box. for now just mix with the software (you would need 8 channels of D/A to mix in the analog domain).
"2) Another way I though about would be skipping the first step - recording onto a tape. I would record directly into a software program, compose the song and then transfer to a tape. What I don't know is if I'd loose any of the "fat sound" this way, since the initial analog step would be missing. Does what I'm asking make any sense? Is there a difference in the sound depending on where in the process recording on a tape takes place?"
this would be much simpler. actually, you could just start with an all digital setup, then you could add a tape machine later if you still wanted one. as far as losing the analog sound, i don't know. i haven't done much mixing to 2-track tape. i would imagine you would get much of the same effect, maybe a little more tape compression with this method since you are dealing with a wider track width? i can say this, i can tell a significant difference between things tracked to tape and things tracked to digital on MY setup.
ok, i hope that all this makes sense. you might want to do some searches here and at TapeOp on things like mixing to tape and analog/digital hybrid setups and info on specific tape machines. you'll definitely find no shortage of digital vs analog debates, but if you wade through the flaming you'll find plenty of good info. good luck.
--Doris
Z
Zobi
New member
Doris, thanks a lot for your post. Check your PM's....