Recording Snare Drum

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darnold

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Ive had a problem recording the snare drum on a set for quite some time. I can get the rest of the set to sound just fine but the snare always has some kind of tinny sound (on a SM-57). whats the best way to fix this?? ive tried mic placements which helped a little. i turned the threshold up on the compressor (which helped a little but that really squoze the sound). any help?
 
sounds to me like it's in the snare tuning not the miking. You could try an under mike phase reversed, which can add some extra body and depth to the snare. Do a search on Snare Miking and see what you get ;)

Cheers
John
 
thanks

thanks for you help but i kinda new that. its just i get it with every snare i record so im guessing its something ive got set wrong on eq or compression. ill just experiment around some more and see what i can do. thanks.
 
speaking of which...

What's the best way to get rid/drasticly reduce snare vibrations...noise gating the snare/overheads? What techniques do people often use?
 
I'd try a different mic. I've always been happy with a SM57 for live snare micing, but I think it sounds weak recorded. I bought a Beta 56 and I'm loving my snare sound now. You'll also get a lot less bleed from other drums compared to the 57.
 
Snares

I have played drums all my life and although I am a recording idiot I am quite profiscient at tuning and playing drums. I recorded with a band once and we always had a "tinny" sound as well. We pulled all the techniqual tricks we had out of the hat. However there is one universal truth that I have learned in my tenure... When recording drums you have to over exadurate EVERYTHING. From a performance aspect, build-ups have to be so over exadurated that the first beats of teh crecendo haev to be almost unaudible and the crest of the build up have to be "out there." And from a technical scpect, the bass must have some "ass on it." While the snare has to be quick and for God sakes not so loud. (not a personal stab at you) but drum sounds are ALWAYS "bum bum CRACK bum bum bum CRACK"
!!!!!!Anyway... I have done everything to avoid the tin sound. I have muted the drum until it sounded like a fat woman was sitting on half of the head. That is rarely any kind of solution. Snares, in case you haven't noticed, are the most EXPENSIVE part of the drum set... and should be regarded as one of if not THE most importaqnt piece. First you have to decide what sound you want. For example Jazzier "quick" guns like the shallow "picallo snares". Where as old school AC/DC fans like that 10 inch deep cat gut snare. Asuming that you have already considerd all this... you must also consider the head. I have found that for recording a drum these THICK ass "take a lickin and keep of beating" Live heads are not so good for recording. Also a clear head for the snare looks cool on Mtv but is shit in a studio. A good white washed coated head works best without the little "target" circle in the middle. And one of those REMO plastic circles should be all the dampening you need. Please leave the: weather striping, duct taped sponges, and expensive "dead ringer" brand silencers, at the stores. Use that money to get a good free floating snare. I am asuming that you have a metal snare. Well anytime you haev metal drilled and screwed directly into metal you get over time weakkenings in the seems and a rattle. First of all, a wooden snare is still the best in the world. Metal snares are cheaper and good for certain styles, but WOOD is the best. Also free floating is the best because there is no contace between the casters and the drum shell. They are expensive and not so fun to work with because when you tune one head you affect the bottom head as well sometimes. But there is no rattle and the wooden shell provides a quick crack rather than the rattley "crackzzzzzzz" from a cheap metal snare. I have no idea if I have helped or given you food for thought or anything. I hope I have not insulted you intellegence at all. I know so little abotu homerecording that want people to talk to ME like I am 5 years old, so I tend to over simplify things for others. ANyway, good luck and keep me informed.

Mike
 
I was having problems getting a recorded snare sound also. What I did was to use a clear pinstripe head rather than my usual coated or fiberskyns. Crank it on good and it gives a good crack with some added bass sounds. Works for me.
 
snare

Try putting the 57 next to the snare pointing straight at the shell, assuming you are using O/H's, you will have the skin contact sound in them and this should give you a bit more beef.
Brenton
 
Thanks for the help!

Ill try some of your ideas tomorrow when i start recording. Thanks for the advice pisces7378 and you didnt offend me or anything. I will also try your idea Brenton. Thanks a lot everyone.
 
darnold said:
Ive had a problem recording the snare drum on a set for quite some time. I can get the rest of the set to sound just fine but the snare always has some kind of tinny sound (on a SM-57). whats the best way to fix this?? ive tried mic placements which helped a little. i turned the threshold up on the compressor (which helped a little but that really squoze the sound). any help?
Click to expand...

Okay tell me the following:

1. What make and model of drum.
2. Heads
3. Tensioning
4. Outboard gear (gate, compression, EQ, etc.)


I've found that most drummers tune their snare WAY too tight. If you want a higher pitch-get a smaller drum!

I use two snares, and both are "free-floating" Brass models by Pearl.

I use a medium tension on both. 1 is 8" deep, and the other is 5" deep. If I want a higher pitch, I switch to the 5" drum.

The snare's batter head should NOT feel like a desk! there should be some "give" in it.

I have seen drummers crank their heads so tight(and they almost NEVER tune the drum evenly) to the point that They have warped a $40 dollar Cast Rim, and once it's warped-that's it-it will never tune properly.

1. Loosen the Snare Strainer.
2. Set it into OFF mode.
3. Tune the drum to where it sounds good by itself, and with the rest of the kit.
flip the snare strainer to the on position(Raise the snare to the snare bed.
4. Slowly increase the tension of the snares while LIGHTLY tapping on the top head with a stick.
5.Stop after a few turns from snare contact(Just make a couple of turns from the point that the snares begin to buzz when you hit the drum).

Mic the drum from the top-and Aim it towards the Drummer, now tap on the drum while listening through headphones, and move the mic around while you are tapping the drum.

Then you can E.Q....
If I do not have an outboard E.Q., and only have access toa 3band mid shift EQ(like on a mackie 1604)
I usually wind up pulling somewhere between 350hz.-800hz. range While recording. Then I will boost in the 100-200 range on playback.

Compression? I compress the heck out of the drum.

I use a high Ratio, I barely bring down my threshold. essentially using it like a limiter. Also, in some situations, I'll drive the Mic gain really hard for a bit of overdrive, and use the Compressors output to actually control the volume going to tape.
Also, you can patch a distortion unit inline if your recording in Digital to simulate tape distortion. (After all-a snare is really nothing more than white noise, so whats a little more distortion! think about it)
I do sometimes use a PEQ (an Aphex "Tubessence" 4 band Parametric) to pull where the snare is ringing-I prefer this to muffling the drum.

Tim
 
Snare head tensioning preferences aren't just about pitch - cranking up the head on my deep snare is not going to have the same sound as medium tensioning on a shallow snare. I think different tuning ideas besides what someone considers to be "proper" tuning can be appropriate depending on the style of music. My snare *does* feel like a desk and I like it that way, and doesn't give me a tinny sound, which is this guy's problem. Sounding "good" is a matter of preference, but I don't think low tuning and dynamic-squishing compression is necessary for a good snare sound. I'm also not a big believer in lots of signal processing to get a good sound, which is difficult to do anyway if you go through an extreme dynamic range throughout a song. But it all depends on what sound you're trying to achieve, darnold. Do you want big, fat, sharp, wooden, metallic, thin, or what, besides "not tinny" :)?
 
Other thoughts.

The room acoustics in the room you are recording in will have an eefect on your snare sound, as well as the over-all drum sound.

Also, I would imagine that the tinny, metallic sound you are experiencing lives at a ceratin frequency that you could easily curb with a mild EQ cut at that frequency.
 
is it true they just mic'd john bonham with a pair of sm57s overhead?and darnold,name a snare drum sound recorded(some reference we can all recognize)that you really like and want to lean towards.
 
Diragor said:
Snare head tensioning preferences aren't just about pitch - cranking up the head on my deep snare is not going to have the same sound as medium tensioning on a shallow snare. I think different tuning ideas besides what someone considers to be "proper" tuning can be appropriate depending on the style of music. My snare *does* feel like a desk and I like it that way, and doesn't give me a tinny sound, which is this guy's problem. Sounding "good" is a matter of preference, but I don't think low tuning and dynamic-squishing compression is necessary for a good snare sound. I'm also not a big believer in lots of signal processing to get a good sound, which is difficult to do anyway if you go through an extreme dynamic range throughout a song. But it all depends on what sound you're trying to achieve, darnold. Do you want big, fat, sharp, wooden, metallic, thin, or what, besides "not tinny" :)?
Click to expand...

Let me ask a question:
How do you tune your toms?

Do you tune them so tight that you're choking them? (which is essentially what you're doing when you tension the snare head like a desk.)

Part of the reason that a field drum is tensioned the way that it is, is for projection. Ever notice that the snare always seems to be the loudest, even though it's generally the shallowest drum in the kit? Part of that has to do with the tension.

I'm not saying don't tune the drum tight, what I'm saying is don't tune it to where it's choking-which is what most drummers tend to do.

What I mean by a "medium tension", is anywhere between 10-20 Psi per lug with either a tension watch, or a Drum Torque Wrench.

and depth definitely affects the timbre (i.e. sound quality) of the drum, if it didn't how come everyone seems to be using different depths of snares.
If I'm going for a Stewart Copeland type of sound-I'll use the 5", If I'm going for a Tommy Aldridge type of sound, I'll use the 8".
Hell, use a drum Torque, and take a 5" deep snare, and an 8" deep snare (with same kinds of heads on both, and tension them to the same tension. They will not sound exactly the same (obviously) and the smaller drum will sound better at tighter tensioning-More snap, more of a classical/concert type of sound)

Also, If he's getting nothing but tin, his 57 may be no good-they can wear out-even though I have one that I've used to hammer nails into a drum riser before, and it works like a charm! hahahaha


Tim

ps-No they didn't use a pair of SM57's. I've read an Edy Kramer article where Bonham actually positioned the mic, (Notice I said MIC) adjusted his playing so that the kit sounded good through the mic-and then threatened anyone with an asswhipping if they touched it! Hahahaha
 
I didn't say that the depth of the snare doesn't affect the sound of the drum, in fact the point I was making was that the depth of the drum *does* affect the sound in many ways in addition to just the pure pitch. I prefer the sound of my deeper snares cranked up tight as opposed to a shallow drum with a more common tuning.

I tune my snare very much like a field drum in the most modern sense of the word - DCI desk-tight. I can't stand a mushy head on the snare, and I like the sharp crack of a super-tight head (top and bottom, incidentally). I'm not sure exactly what you mean by choking, but I'm sure that's what I'm doing with my snare. I don't want a "tone", like an actual note, coming out of my snare (or my kick for that matter) - I want a pure percussive sound, not like a tom with some snares tacked onto the bottom. It still projects just fine and the sound is exactly what I want.

Here are two recordings that demonstrate my drum tuning:



The mix sucks overall (sounds great on my stereo speakers where I used to do my mixing, horrible most other places), but you get the basic idea of my drum sounds. They may sound a little thin because of *way* too much of certain high frequencies that got buried on my speakers (likewise, the guitar can be extremely harsh on some speakers). I'm doing some more recording this weekend with better mics and mixing with decent monitors, maybe I'll post some more next week. I'm still working on the toms, I'm not happy with them yet.

Oh, more on the subject, I found that using a 57 was kind of softening my snare. I didn't get as much sharp attack, and I got way too much bleed from my first tom and hi-hat (I keep my kit *very* close together). The hyper/super cardioid Beta 56 took care of that.
 
yo diragor!sounds like a good drum sound on altec lansing multimedia speakers!now that's a snare drum that has some serious bite,i'll bet that when you hit that thing ,it's probably impossible to keep your eyes open,maybe it's a guitarist thing,but when i stand next to the drummer ,if he/she hits hard enough ,usually it forces my eyes to blink shut,some kind of pressure thing?

anyway,i think one important aspect that we're forgetting to mention is style.how hard of a hitter you are really changes everything.or maybe it did get mentioned and my small mind did not clue in on it.but it is important to realize the snare player that pounds it,or the lighter touched player.but wow,i did dig that song a lot,DIRAGOR,i enjoy your playing a lot,i see what you mean about not wanting a note coming out of the kick just a very percussive sound.as you described it,i tried to picture the very sound ,then played the mp3,turned it up and ROCKED OUT!now,that,is a killer snare sound!!tight,yet still some depth,and tone,(sorry,there is pitch in it),work it ,baby!but,i do think that you are double hitting your snare at some points wich really adds a bit of dramatic change and brings out that snare!!what's the kit?and tell me about the recording set up.e-mail me if you don't wanna waste any more space.but that song(first one,i'll listen to the other now)kicks serious ass!
 
Might as well answer that here in case anyone else cares.

On that recording I was using a Shure Beta 52 kick drum mic, a Beta 56 on the snare, Sennheiser e604 tom mics, and an SM58 as an overhead (all I had at the time). That all went through an Alesis Studio 32 into a MOTU 1224 into a PC running Cool Edit Pro (I've since switched to Logic Audio).

The kit is a Yamaha Stage Custom 5-pc kit with a Ludwig snare. Aquarian Performance II heads on the toms, Evans Retro kick drum head set, and a Falams head on the snare.
 
Love those Falam heads on the snare

It's hard to find other drummers that like recording with those! I love the way those sound on a snare when you crank em. I used to use thinner shelled drums with those heads and they sounded pretty good, but I recently got a kit from Orange County Drum and Percussion and the snare is 20-ply and that sucker is LOUD and really full. I once heard a story of a drummer who used falams on his whole kit, but I guess thats one for the drummers page....Great sounds by the way -RyanV
 
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