recording snare drum without leakage

  • Thread starter Thread starter postalblue
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postalblue said:
yeah, i probably experienced a bad use of the technique, but my drummer would NEVER accept that suggestion.
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If you do it right and don't tell him, he'll never know. Believe me - I once replaced a drum part (the drummer had a rubbishy kit) with a drum machine without telling him, and he still swears it's the best drum sound he's ever had.

Admittedly, I did spend two very intense hours listening to his track and copying it exactly...whatever gets the job done.

I'm better at recording kits now.

:)
 
hmm.. i think i'll try the hypercardioid approach. spending hours replacing a recording i already spent hours making seems kind of dumb to me. i'm not saying you're dumb, phildo, don't get me wrong. if it works for you, it's great. but i wouldn't do it. this is my first album, and i want everything to be the best it can be with the equipment/knowledege/skills i have right now. i'm not really dissatisfied with the snare sound i'm getting. my gripes are that i can't get the damn hihat out of my snare mic unless i gate it, and that i haven't been able to get the same (or similar/as good) snare sound on a consistent basis. i'll suggest the higher hihat approach next time we track drums, and see if it works. as for tracking the hihat separately, i think it sounds good to me, but i doubt the drummer will agree. as for triggered samples, i'd never use them for MY music. if i ever have to do it on somebody else's tunes, it's ok, but not on mine. :)
 
postalblue said:
as for tracking the hihat separately, i think it sounds good to me, but i doubt the drummer will agree.
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Yeah, and thats the biggest downfall of drummers, and other musicians... they all want to have full control over the recording, and they all want to do it there way, when there ARE other ways to achieve a BETTER sound...

I run into this all the time.... I can make drums sound amazing with studio trickery like explained above... but I always run into drummers that say.. 'Naaahhh I just want it to be all my real drums...".. Which is cool, I understand... but when you don't have the proper live room or expertise in miking, drummers like that can really compromise the sound... kick ass drum sounds MAKE a rock tune IMO.... The difference is night and day...

Of course, in my experience and opinion that is...
 
Before y'all flame me....

Keep in mind im talking about achieveing the best and most pro sound in home studio's

If your Bob Rock, and have a zillion dollars and bundles of equipment and knowledge, then you will record a full kit thats TUNED preperly and the drummer plays with PROPER dynamics...

Unfortunately you rarely run into drummers like that in the garage band, bar band , home recording scene...

The "tricks" are needed to get a pro sound... and drummers not liking to use the tricks, compromise the end product in a home studio setting...

Just wanted to clear that up...
 
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I think that on your next project have the drummer listen back to the drum part and extensively explain how much better it could sound if he raised the hat, or played with a different frame of thinking compared to a live gig or rehearsal. I'm not saying to kill the dynamics, but have him adjust his playing ...after all those condensor mics are pretty sensitive! One technique I've used in the past is to put tiny pieces of console tape on the hihat and what ever cymbal I feel is getting abuse, and tell the drummer that anywhere he sees the tape to watch his dynamics on those instruments. I don't do this all the time but works on some situations.
 
OK Trigger and Sample.

First you need a Alesis D4 or 5.
You plug your snare into the rear and set the trigger to open when the snare hits. you can adjust the sensitivity etc within the Unit.

You now get the D5 to spit out a midi note with every trigger and you record the midi note in a sequencer like cubase locked to the recorder. You can see each snare hit as midinote and you can go through and remove any faulty triggers.
Next feed the midi note back into the D5 and use it to spit out a snare sample, or use the midi note to drive any sampler with sounds in it.

Bring the new sample snare up on a console track and mix it with the original. There will be a flam caused by the delay in the triggering so you must advance the sample until it phases with the original. Now you can mix the sample into the original without flamming and it will strengthen the snare sound but still have the life and dynamic from the original snare sound.

Repeat with the kick.

cheers
John
 
forget it, john, i'm not gonna do that. :D
but thanks anyway, for explaining the technique. i might find use for it on someone else's project. :)
 
okay...what if i don't want the fake drum sounds of the alesis module?

What i'm asking is...How do I sample MY SNARE? And then trigger that? What equipment do i need? Is this possible? What about dynamic stuff like rolls and ghost notes? Oh, and by the way, i'm running on adats...no computer stuff.
 
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okay...what if i don't want the fake drum sounds of the alesis module?
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Like I said - you use the midi note to trigger a drum module or synth or sampler. If you've got a sampler you can sample your own snare and use that. :)

cheers
John
 
So, is one of those $300 roland samplers good enough? Do those have trigger inputs?
 
I have played drum sessions professionally for the last 20 years or so. The kit recording setups have ranged from full-on 30+ mics in a special live room to sample triggers in a basement studio. There are pros and cons to each, but I've always tried to stay flexible as to what method gets the appropriate sound for the given piece of music.

- depending on the type of music, sample triggering can be very advantageous. Like a hard rock song where it's all about wacking the shit out of the snare. Going to a sample trigger will give the engineer much more control, and the ability to dial in the tones in exactly the right frequency area of the mix. This can transform your dead kit into a monster in the hands of a good engineer. This also gives you the option to change tones if necessary without retracking the performance.

- live kit full-on mic setup is wonderful if done right. You need a fresh set of heads and a good & settled tuning of the drums. Then you lock down the whole kit to prevent rattling, taping off hardware, putting cushions between adjacent stuff, and baffling the drums to the point of getting good tones without excessive rings. Then you mic with the correct mic types for the job, you know what I mean there. Get levels on the close mics, then setup ambient to fill in the live dynamic. Spend the time to get good clear levels on each drum, while attempting maximum physical separation and minimizing bleed.

Then you need an excellent performance with consistent hitting velocities, locked timing, and maximum inspiration. :)
 
my question still goes unanswered. What do I need to sample my snare and have that triggered?? please don't use language such as midi and remember i'm running a couple adats--no computer shit.
 
You need Midi...

I just said that to piss you off...



Other than what John Sayers listed... You would need a mic and a sampler..... Im not sure of how to get your samples into the Alesis he described... maybe he will elaborate...
 
okay...here's the gameplan. Tell me if it works or not.

I get a cheap sampler around 300 bucks. I record a good mic sound on adat and transfer this over to the sampler. I put a trigger on my snare drum and plug it into the sampler. Sampler goes into the board. Board goes into the adat. Is this all it is?
 
Skip the ADAT.... Plug the mic right into the Mic input of your sampler..

The rest, Im not sure of....
 
Or trigger it from the noisy snare track if it's already on tape.
Wayne
 
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