Recording set-up - need advice

[fabrice]

Dear all ;-)

I checked quite a bit other threads available here, but couldn't find an exact answer to my question ... so hope I can get some inputs from you guys!

Here is the situation: I want to start recording (at home, small room, ie. about 10 sq. meters) some songs that will include ...
- upright piano ("glued" on a wall - I guess I could move it a little, but would prefer not to)
- acoustic guitar
- electric guitar (thru amps available on DAW)
- a bit of voice once in a while

Style for my music: Max Richter, Olafur Arnalds (eg. 【失逝】 滴画 - my purity (Olafur Arnalds - Fyrsta)—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看), etc. Quiet and slow music ;-)

What I have (other than instruments above that is...):
- DAW: Garageband / Pro Tools
- Computer: MacBook Pro

What equipment would I need, knowing that my budget is around $500 ...:
- Microphones, of course: read about a pair of small diaphragm condenser for piano ... Good advice? Which model would you recommend? Do I need another one for voice and/or acoustic guitar?
- Audio interface: since I am a one-man band, I assume a 2/2 would be enough, with pre-amp and phantom power. Fair? Any model I should look at in particular?
- Any box I need to buy to inputs directly guitar, or just getting it thru the A/I will be good?

As you can see, clearly not on expert on my side of the keyboard ... Looking forward to your inputs!

Thanks!
Fabrice

 

[mjbphotos]

Guessing you may be limited on the brands of equipment you can buy due to where you are? SOunds like you have the basic idea down on what is needed.
For the interface, many choices including the Steinberg UR22, Sapphire models, Tascam.
Mics - many choices as well.
You'll need headphones for monitoring previously recorded tracks and recording with mics. You'll need monitors for mixing. Mic stands, cables, pop filter. Start thinking about acoustic treatment in the room - do some more reading here, tons of info available.

 

[mdainsd]

+100

OP, please describe for us your room that you will be recording in? Materials, ceiling height, floor coverings etc.

A portion of your budget (maybe even a majority of it) might have to go to room treatment. While its not "as cool" to be spending money on room treatments as opposed to shiny new microphones, it has to be done. You could spend ten times your budget on cool gear and get terrible results without addressing this first.

 

[groundflrmusic]

Yeah, sounds like you've got a pretty good grasp on the basics of what you'll need. People have tons of preferences when it comes to specific models of gear, so it really depends what's important to you. As far as microphones go, I think you'd be better served by getting one large diaphragm condenser to start, with your budget the leftover money is better spent on a decent pair of headphones to monitor with. Audio Technica 2020's have always worked well for me for the price, but I don't record that much piano.

Tascam, Focusrite, AVID, and M-Audio all have very decent and relatively inexpensive Audio Interfaces within your price range, no need to dwell on that decision for too long. I would really recommend the headphones though, they can really make a difference. Sennheiser HD 280's are about $100, so they should fit into your budget nicely if you wanted to check them out.

As far as your room goes, I wouldn't worry too too much about room treatment just yet. From the sounds of it you'll be doing a lot of this "in the box" so-to-speak, so close miking will probably take care of most of the major issues there.

 

[Armistice]

A dolly to help move the piano. A loud instrument against a wall might be a bit of a handful in terms of reflections.

$500? Save more. You'll need leads, stands, mics, interface, treatment etc.

Having an indicative budget is a nice concept... sticking to it can cost you more in the long run if it's too small.

Remember I told you this the first time you replace the cheap crappy <whatever> you bought just to stay under budget.

Good luck.

 

[GuitarLegend]

There is a huge range of audio interfaces that you can choose from, so anyone's suggestions may be contested by anyone else. With that in mind, you can't go wrong with the Focusrite range, either the Firewire-based Saffire range or the USB-based Scarlett range. I would recommend the Saffire PRO 24 DSP. If you prefer USB then I would start with the Scarlett 2i4 which is the smallest Scarlett with midi I/O if that happens to be important to you. Bear in mind that almost every audio interface will require powered speakers. That may not be possible on your specified budget. You may be limited to headphones for a while...

 

[TulipAcid]

I too am a Max Richter and Olafur Arnauld fan. More in the area of their keyboard works and motion picture scores leveraging real or sampled conventional orchestral instruments. Also, Finneas O’Connell. As I recall he does a LOT of his work in software!

Your vision might not be mine … and, I am rebooting myself for the modern age (dabbled off and on for decades.)

I have to imagine for such projects that those composers/performers may do a fair amount of composition work using tech using their computers/software/midi-controller keyboard to begin developing ideas. Perhaps even to end in some cases. Of course they go off in many directions beyond that.

I’m pretty fond of the Apogee Duet 3, which will handle two XLR inputs. But I’ve just dabbled with that side of things recording a mandolin duet. Two condenser mics, mic stands.

Don’t have room for a real piano, so got intent on sampled instruments. Apple’s Studio Piano and Concert Grand are …OK… Synthology has nice pianos. Vienna Symphonic Library has pianos and everything else orchestral.

 

[Bstrom]

$500 won't get you decent mics, much less any othert critical gear. Add about $1000 to your budget and you might get what you need for basics.

Here's my gear list - it's still considered a basic kit:
SSL 12 interface
Pro Tools software subscription
Kali near field speakwers
Mac mini M4 w/ Logic Pro
(3) AKG C900 condensers
(2) shure SM57 dynamics
(2) sE VR2 active ribbons
Shure Beta kick mic
Sennhesier SD480 headphones
Several mic stands and a Blumlein mic bracket
DIY room treatments
Doesn't include two acoustic and two electric guitars, mandolins, EMG bass, and a full drum kit

Make a list and prioritize what comes first, etc.

 

[Papanate]

You can easily get into recording for $500 - it will be good gear but not great - here is what I would suggest.

1. Audio Interface - Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen $125
2. Mics - MXL 990/991 Large- and Small-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone $100 used -Sennheiser e609 dynamic microphone $80 used
3. Headphones -Sony MDR-7506 $100 new - $75 used.

That will get you started - obviously if have more money you can get nearfields too for around $350 or so.

 

[Bstrom]

You can easily get into recording for $500 - it will be good gear but not great - here is what I would suggest.

1. Audio Interface - Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen $125
2. Mics - MXL 990/991 Large- and Small-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone $100 used -Sennheiser e609 dynamic microphone $80 used
3. Headphones -Sony MDR-7506 $100 new - $75 used.

That will get you started - obviously if have more money you can get nearfields too for around $350 or so.

So you have two approaches to consider.

The newer gear has better preamps and controls that more closely mimic the pro gear few of us can afford. Professional results are clearly posssible with desktop systems today. Check Julian Krause's many reviews on interfaces to weed out what you may not be happy with. The field of gear has changed a good deal recently.

There may well be a difference in the rresults you get with older and used gear when you get your tracks into Pro Tools. But if budget means more than quality and your long term goals don't require a good equipment base to work with you may very well be happy with those choices.

My take on acquiring audio equipment is - buy once, cry once. These are long term investments and the better the start the better the finish. Just sayin'...

 

[Papanate]

My take on acquiring audio equipment is - buy once, cry once. These are long term investments and the better the start the better the finish. Just sayin'...

Except if he has al imited budget he can’t buy the better stuff and cry over it - he won’t be able to record.

 

[DM60]

Except if he has al imited budget he can’t buy the better stuff and cry over it - he won’t be able to record.

I think many on the board agree would with you. I think you can get pretty damn good results with mid-level gear. Plus, what Bstrom forgets, or doesn't know, mics, speakers, guitars, etc. really have not improved over the last 50 years. Digital has improved, converters are better, but the basics from far back hasn't. I would say that modern cheap mics have really gotten a better "bang for your buck" improvement. Plus like what has been stated for years on the board, room and good source will win every time.

And bottom line, I would rather make a decent recording with what I can, than not make a great recording with what I can't. (Sounded better in my head)

 

[Bstrom]

Except if he has al imited budget he can’t buy the better stuff and cry over it - he won’t be able to record.

He also doesn't have much background on what to buy and why - there's some homework to be done here before pulling one's wallet out to 'live the dream' will ever happen.
Kudos for using Pro Tools on a Mac, tho! Great choice...

 

[Bstrom]

I think many on the board agree would with you. I think you can get pretty damn good results with mid-level gear. Plus, what Bstrom forgets, or doesn't know, mics, speakers, guitars, etc. really have not improved over the last 50 years. Digital has improved, converters are better, but the basics from far back hasn't. I would say that modern cheap mics have really gotten a better "bang for your buck" improvement. Plus like what has been stated for years on the board, room and good source will win every time.

And bottom line, I would rather make a decent recording with what I can, than not make a great recording with what I can't. (Sounded better in my head)

"what Bstrom forgets, or doesn't know, mics, speakers, guitars, etc. really have not improved over the last 50 years. "

Have you checked pricing recently? You are clearly out of touch or haven't bought anything in the last few years.
This guy is a on a budget. It's a slow burn building a good recording system.

 

[DM60]

"what Bstrom forgets, or doesn't know, mics, speakers, guitars, etc. really have not improved over the last 50 years. "

Have you checked pricing recently? You are clearly out of touch or haven't bought anything in the last few years.
This guy is a on a budget. It's a slow burn building a good recording system.

Hence "used". A lot of inexpensive good gear out there. Only thing that is really improved are computers. And most computers 5 years plus back can handle almost anything audio. I haven't upgraded in over 5 years except for my computer and monitor, still works fine. I see a lot of people with people on Facebook Market exiting the recording scene. The price is many times is just short of giving it to Goodwill.

Most items out there from 10 years back, would serve a new person very well. Might take a little leg work, which is cheaper 99% of the time.

 

[Bstrom]

So there's your choice - used and dated gear vs. current technology. Yes, older gear works with the stated caveats and I may have spoiled myself buying current equipment, but I'm having zero technical issues in operation too. It was money well spent and it took a lot more than $500 to get there. No regrets.

I wish our OP the best in his adventure into audio and hope he is rewarded with the results he seeks. Peace out...

 

[rob aylestone]

You know, it is perfectly possible to put together budget equipment that will do a pretty good job. I've been reviewing cheap mics for a long time now, and unless presented with a wonderful instrument, in a super sounding room, products at the cheaper end, and maybe even second hand can do a pretty decent job. My collection of super mics really are not the sort of thing that makes other mics terrible by comparison. If you want small SDC mics, then the samsons and cheaper models from AKG hold their own. Some of the unbranded Chinese ones can be good too.
T-Bone from Thomann have the EM-700 pair for £25 each/50 a pair. They are not bad mics.
The behringer C-2s are cheap and OK
Samson C-02 can be very useful
If you want cheap larger mics
T-bone SC400/450 - 1" diaphragm and very good value for money.
MXL mics are solid too
The samson C-01 is a solid medium size diaphragm mic - I quite like them.

Stands, cables and bits and pieces -- but you have an upright, it's close to the wall (as they all are of course) and you don't want to move it. It isn't going to sound like a big Steinway or Yamaha, but with EQ can be OK. Maybe you will need to take the front off, maybe you won't.
My advice has to be this - do NOT spend vast amounts of money until you have some recordings done and you know what you are not capturing. Then, you can make future purchases more focussed. Two cheap pencil mics can produce really nice sound, but it is where they are put, not what they are or how much they cost that matters. Second hand mics can be great buys. I would rather have half a dozen cheap mics than one expensive one.

 

[R D Smith]

When I joined this site, one of the first threads I found was a microphone thread by Harvey Gerst. He lists 4 microphones that were under $100 at the time and provided tracks recorded with each mic so you could hear how they sounded. I bought the ECM-8000, and MXL V67g based on his recommendation.

It's a good read, if you haven't already seen it. Link below.

Mics for under $100 - that just may work for you.

 

[TalismanRich]

$500 won't get you decent mics, much less any othert critical gear. Add about $1000 to your budget and you might get what you need for basics.

Here's my gear list - it's still considered a basic kit:
SSL 12 interface
Pro Tools software subscription
Kali near field speakwers
Mac mini M4 w/ Logic Pro
(3) AKG C900 condensers
(2) shure SM57 dynamics
(2) sE VR2 active ribbons
Shure Beta kick mic
Sennhesier SD480 headphones
Several mic stands and a Blumlein mic bracket
DIY room treatments
Doesn't include two acoustic and two electric guitars, mandolins, EMG bass, and a full drum kit

Make a list and prioritize what comes first, etc.

Besides the fact that this is a 12yr old thread, you might as well recommend 16 channel Neve, a few vintage U47s and a pair of big ATC monitors.

People do have budgetary constraints. I know someone who has done his recordings with a pair of Studio Projects B3s that he bought for a couple hundred, and a Zoom Q8 video recorder. A pair of Beyer headphones is his monitor system, since he lives in an apartment building and can't crank up a pair of monitors.

BTW, he produced a full commercial CD of solo piano music with those two Studio Projects B3s. I have a pair of the same mics that I got around 2004. They are still good mics.

These days, a Zoom H4n Essential would run you $200. There are several basic interfaces that give you two channels to work with, perfect for doing stereo recordings of a guitar or piano. There are any number of microphones in the $125 and under range. The V67G, AKG C104 or P170, SE X1A all will make decent recordings. Find a pair of used monitors and you have enough to do basic recording. Reaper will give you full pro results.

And I'm sure that 2014 Mac with ProTools is no longer rockin' and rollin'.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

A dolly to help move the piano.

Great idea.
I moved my upright piano from one wall to the opposite wall.
The little wheels on it are mostly broken.
Slide the dolly under one end of the piano.
Then it is easy to lift and move the other end.
Well, it is if you're a big lummox like me.
Of course, the piano is a cheap and crappy one.
You're probably better off recording a digital piano.