Recording School?

[fattmudge]

I guess this is the best place to post this thread....I was just wondering what people's take on recording schools were...Are they worth the money?.....Do I really need a diploma in recording technology to have a career in the audio industry? Even if not, are the advantages of going to school enough to bust out the dough needed to attend a reputable recording school?

I know there is so much I can learn on my own, but i just imagine doing a recording program that completely immerses students in the world of recording and all the most up-to-date technologies out there would be so inspiring for a young person looking to start his career in the audio industry.....but what do i know?

Anyone who has been there or has some suggestions, please post!
Thanks.

 

[wheelema]

You are far better, in my opinion, pursuing a electrical engineering degree with a focus on studio recording than shoveling money at some place like Full Sail. If you perform a critical analysis of Full Sail's public job placements vs. the number of students you will see that, despite the marketing bullshit, they are only placing a small percentage of students.

If you must pursue please consider the number of excellent community colleges that offer an education at a very reasonable price, and who often have hooks in local industry. There is is CC in LA that is highly regarded in this aspect, though it's name (regretably) escapes me just now.

 

[ssscientist]

I agree about getting an EE.

Another option would be to take the $10K, $15K, $20K -- whatever a year's tuition is to one of the large recording schools and sink it into some gear of your own. Then learn to use it.

Advantages would be:

• Resale of gear if you decide that recording just isn't for you. No refunds on tuition.
• Move at your own pace and go over stuff as many times as you need to.
• Depending on the type of music, when you get to a certain point you could start taking paying clients.
• That's the way I did it.

 

[Mindset]

eh, I go to Dallas Sound Labs, but half the stuff I already know, and it's $17,500............ BUT I did get to get a lot of extra connections to major & minor players in the game. If you are able to teach yourself all the in's and outs, go ahead and do it, that's the best learning experience. However there's also little things I had to learn that didn't care for, that other studios, recording labels, production companies etc, would just fire you on the spot and find someone else (because they just dont' want to spend the money to "fix" whatever) if you didn't know it, or "forgot" it.

 

[RAK]

When talking about recording "schools" there are really two avenues. Some sort of "certificate" program, or associates degree type thing. Or actually going to a university and getting a 4 year bachelors degree in audio engineering.

Two very different things.

 

[Rokket]

Most people say that the degree doesn't mean much until you prove yourself. If you want a career as an AE, you may still end up doing a lot of gratis work as an intern until you do.

 

[wheelema]

No question well-off parents would be a big help here. Actually, well off parents are a big help anywhere.

 

[bennychico11]

it all depends on what you want to do. If you want to try and make a living off of recording and find a job in the business somewhere, any amount of learning whether it be at a school or on your own can't hurt. So I don't think schools will be a "waste of money." Experience is experience...and you can get some of the experience in a classroom or studio working with teachers who have done this stuff before.

So many people in this industry are quick to judge schools and their teaching of students...but they forget that a lot of the teachers in these schools have been recording for years and have a lot to teach. Not to mention a lot of these schools have great facilities with awesome gear. So combining a teacher with years of experience and the equipment to learn on....I don't really see a downside to that. It'd be similar to walking into a studio and interning or assisting right away.
As far as just taking the $20K and putting it towards gear...that'd be awesome, if you have 20K sitting around. Most people don't. And the 20K you're going to get for school you usually get from a bank. It's going to be hard to get a bank to give you 20K for just buying gear. Not to mention, the 20K won't get you a 96 channel SSL to learn on.

You get out what you put in. If you work your ass off and try and get as much hands on time as possible, you'll learn a lot. You learn from someone else's experience. You learn proper micing techniques that have been used for years, studio ettiquete, the business side of things, how to work with analog tape, patchbay work, electronics, using MIDI, different software programs...some teachers may even go as far as to show you what they would do with a mix or when recording a certain instrument.

Look at your local Junior Colleges if you can't afford schools like Full Sail. Those are usually the cheapest places to go for short term. Some studios in your town may even offer classes...I know one here does.

If you perform a critical analysis of Full Sail's public job placements vs. the number of students you will see that, despite the marketing bullshit, they are only placing a small percentage of students.

This is maybe true for the people who did terrible at Full Sail...but there are idiots at every school. I for one got a job right out of school and everyone I still talk with has jobs as well in studios. Again, you get what you put into it. Full Sail can help you with placement, but they don't get the job for you. It's up to how well you interview as well as a little bit of luck (as with every job).

Some people also don't learn well on their own. Take a look at this forum here. How many 16-18 year olds get their parents to buy them everything under the sun to start recording and they jump on here the first night they get everything and post "I'm confused, can someone explain to me how to hook up everything and record?"
Not to mention in some school settings this stuff is forced into you 5-6 days a week, 9 hours a day. You get much more hands on experience and studying of this stuff than an average hobbyist does on the weekends when he's not at work. You start acting like it's a full time job right off the bat and soon it's all you know.

Then there's the most important part of the recording schools...networking! You'll meet lots of people and want to maintain those relationships down the road because you never know if it may mean a job one day for you.

Just my $.02

 

[kojdogg]

eh, I go to Dallas Sound Labs, but half the stuff I already know, and it's $17,500............ BUT I did get to get a lot of extra connections to major & minor players in the game. If you are able to teach yourself all the in's and outs, go ahead and do it, that's the best learning experience. However there's also little things I had to learn that didn't care for, that other studios, recording labels, production companies etc, would just fire you on the spot and find someone else (because they just dont' want to spend the money to "fix" whatever) if you didn't know it, or "forgot" it.

Honestly, I don't mean this in any sort of disrespecftul way-- they didn't cover how to mic a guitar amp or stringed instruments like cellos there?!? What do they teach you in a program like that?

 

[Mindset]

it all depends on what you want to do. If you want to try and make a living off of recording and find a job in the business somewhere, any amount of learning whether it be at a school or on your own can't hurt. So I don't think schools will be a "waste of money." Experience is experience...and you can get some of the experience in a classroom or studio working with teachers who have done this stuff before.

So many people in this industry are quick to judge schools and their teaching of students...but they forget that a lot of the teachers in these schools have been recording for years and have a lot to teach. Not to mention a lot of these schools have great facilities with awesome gear. So combining a teacher with years of experience and the equipment to learn on....I don't really see a downside to that. It'd be similar to walking into a studio and interning or assisting right away.
As far as just taking the $20K and putting it towards gear...that'd be awesome, if you have 20K sitting around. Most people don't. And the 20K you're going to get for school you usually get from a bank. It's going to be hard to get a bank to give you 20K for just buying gear. Not to mention, the 20K won't get you a 96 channel SSL to learn on.

You get out what you put in. If you work your ass off and try and get as much hands on time as possible, you'll learn a lot. You learn from someone else's experience. You learn proper micing techniques that have been used for years, studio ettiquete, the business side of things, how to work with analog tape, patchbay work, electronics, using MIDI, different software programs...some teachers may even go as far as to show you what they would do with a mix or when recording a certain instrument.

Look at your local Junior Colleges if you can't afford schools like Full Sail. Those are usually the cheapest places to go for short term. Some studios in your town may even offer classes...I know one here does.



This is maybe true for the people who did terrible at Full Sail...but there are idiots at every school. I for one got a job right out of school and everyone I still talk with has jobs as well in studios. Again, you get what you put into it. Full Sail can help you with placement, but they don't get the job for you. It's up to how well you interview as well as a little bit of luck (as with every job).

Some people also don't learn well on their own. Take a look at this forum here. How many 16-18 year olds get their parents to buy them everything under the sun to start recording and they jump on here the first night they get everything and post "I'm confused, can someone explain to me how to hook up everything and record?"
Not to mention in some school settings this stuff is forced into you 5-6 days a week, 9 hours a day. You get much more hands on experience and studying of this stuff than an average hobbyist does on the weekends when he's not at work. You start acting like it's a full time job right off the bat and soon it's all you know.

Then there's the most important part of the recording schools...networking! You'll meet lots of people and want to maintain those relationships down the road because you never know if it may mean a job one day for you.

Just my $.02

Well said. It does depend on the individual, and where they want to go. Some people do well learning on their own, and others like the schooling part. And yeah, experience does matter. You can learn on a small Mackie board, but some of that stuff is totally different on a SSL console (actually a lot but same concept). When sitting in front of the SSL console at my school, it's a totally different beast. Schools offer something others don't. Schools offer a student to be able to be comfortable in any recording studio out there. Dropping 20k on gear, won't guarantee you the ease of use, of say a british console, or the studio next door, or how their setup is. Of course, having your own gear is a plus too, it also allows you to experiment, and learn things on your own, that sometimes doesn't happen in regular studios. Like if something messes up at home, you are able to troubleshoot it without having someone come in and fix it for you. Knowledge is key. As for networking... That's straight up. You can network at home, but not like you can at school. I've had friends, who do their thing at home, but how many of them are actually going to make it? How many of them have real connects? not many of them at all... Networking at school is a lot easier. It's like having your foot in the door half way. Let a major producer that teaches, listen to some of your GREAT music that SHOULD be in the store, and he/she might just like it enough to get something going for you. Just have the heart, and things will happen (along with other things too). I get to mess around with a Miko, which I couldn't do by myself, with the budget I have. There's more than enough to learn. Recording companies will kick you out the door if you don't know what your doing, one mistake even, and there you go.

 

[RAK]

For what it's worth, I graduated from DePaul University School of Music, with a B.S. in Sound Recording Technology and a minor in Microelectronics (I know, it's a mouth full). There were 7 other people I graduated with. Here's what we do now (at least what I know about)

Not exactly sure what - ZZounds
Cust. Support - Steinberg
Recording engineer - Studio Chicago
House Sound Engineer - Chicago Shakespeare Theater
Freelance musician/recording engineer
Product Development - Shure

And 2 I don't know what they're up to. (I think one got a Masters in Comp. Sci.)

Anyway I'm a big believer in academics, and it certainly worked for me.
DePaul is also a very classical music school, you have to audition to get in, but not all programs are like that.

I definetly believe it's because of my degree that I have worked as the house audio engineer for a performing arts center, an assistant at a post studio, and continue to work in a studio. But as they say, different strokes for different folks. It's not going to be the best route for everyone.

 

[fattmudge]

Thanks everybody for all of your input and taking the time to write such detailed opinions on this subject ...I am actually from Canada and was considering some schools here...Has anyone ever heard of OIART (Ontario Institute of Audio Recording and Technology)... I hear it is a very credible school... People have even called it the Harvard of Audio Schools...whatever that means...Anyways, anybody ever go there?

Thanks again...

 

[RAK]

Thanks everybody for all of your input and taking the time to write such detailed opinions on this subject ...I am actually from Canada and was considering some schools here...Has anyone ever heard of OIART (Ontario Institute of Audio Recording and Technology)... I hear it is a very credible school... People have even called it the Harvard of Audio Schools...whatever that means...Anyways, anybody ever go there?

Thanks again...

I don't know anything about OIART. What type of degrees do they give? actual Bachelors? Or is just a certificate thing. McGill in Montreal has an audio engineering program that I'm sure is very respectible. They're also one of the few that offer a masters program as well.

Not sure if anyone has turned you on to this yet, but check out the AES directory, they have a pretty comprehensive list.

http://www.aes.org/education/geodir.cfm

 

[luckicharm]

there is a program called "music connection" that i am actually looking into. its not really a school, but it is for learning/training purposes. basically you go to a real studio with an engineer and they teach you one on one everything about the equiptment. it sounds good...look that up. anyone had any experiences with this?

 

[Hoyton]

I'm not pursuing a career in audio production/engineering by any means, but I personally know a few people attending the Centre for Arts and Technology in Kelowna, BC. One of the teachers there owns and operates the foremost respectable recording studio in the okanagan in my opinion.

http://www.digitalartschool.com/

There's the link if you're interested. I've worked with an engineer who did a job in the studio there, and man is it amazing. I guess the guy who Bryan Adams employed to design his studio designed it (not sure what that's worth but, hey) and it sure would be a beautiful environment for learning.

 

[TragikRemix]

ive been thinking much about this too..

Audio Engineering- not necessarily recording and music correct?

like, say i had my major in AE, i would be 'qualified' for a job at a major company, say anywhere from JBL, to Shure, to whatever??

i think an EE degree would open more doors for ya. that's what i'm thinking for myself.

 

[RAK]

ive been thinking much about this too..

Audio Engineering- not necessarily recording and music correct?

like, say i had my major in AE, i would be 'qualified' for a job at a major company, say anywhere from JBL, to Shure, to whatever??

i think an EE degree would open more doors for ya. that's what i'm thinking for myself.

I went to DePaul University School of Music as a percussionist, but majored in what we called "Sound Recording Technology" (B.S.) with a physics minor in "microelectronics" and now I'm with Shure, if that helps.

Audio Engineering can absolutely be recording and music. I believe the degree from the Music School at Indiana University is called "Audio Engineering" but (at least when I looked into it) The program was much more focused on live sound, rather than studio. It also didn't require an audition into the music school.

The important thing is to look into the guts of the program, not what it's called, and find the right one for you.

 

[TragikRemix]

thanks RAK, i was thinking of you in my post

so do they pay well at shure???
what do you do? theres so much out there and i'm running short on time... my guidance conselor is on everyones ass about college apps, but i dont want to apply until i have some sort of direction somewhere.

i love music. music, as well as the business, the production, besides the creativity. i'm also completing a technology sequence, with focus on technical drawing/ drafting, CAD, etc, so i guess i'm deciding between the two...

it's down to wheres the money at, and where are the positions availible for me... tech or music... architect or sound engineer.. it's a hard choice, but i figure i've put so much into music, (money and effort) that it would be impossible to not bring it anywhere.

 

[BigRay]

Ive got a bachelors in music..seriously thinking about taking my GI bill and going to Belmont for An acoustic engineering or Recording degree...

(I already have a recording business, but hell, ive got to spend the gi bill somehow..)

 

[TragikRemix]

Ive got a bachelors in music..seriously thinking about taking my GI bill and going to Belmont for An acoustic engineering or Recording degree...

(I already have a recording business, but hell, ive got to spend the gi bill somehow..)

honestly, thats a good idea. not that the degree means shit in this business, i'd rather have some guy record my stuff, who's been doing it for 40 years and started out by cutting 2" tape, rather than the guy with a degree and all sorts of certification from Berkley or where ever..

true story here- we have a local studio in my town, who my store happens to be associated with etc etc etc. he's got a massive studio, PT HD3 system, (this guy is a real jerk, he always rants about all of the expensive stuff he has, always knocking everything else that people have..). he has his brother in law (or whatever) engineering and producing in the studio for him. he's always yapping about his degrees from Five Towns (a private music university, not too far from my area).. well, one of the guitar teachers from my store won a 10 hr block of recording time at a battle of the bands for his studio. the teacher is actually a member of this forum and has a nice recording setup at home.

anyways, he gets his studio time and goes with his band to do it.. turns out that they walked out of the place and told them to keep it.

the certified engineer didnt know how to punch in?? hello??! somethings wrong there.

then he decides to go nuts and starts changing things in the middle of the process, changes the singer's mic, changes the guitar amp, trys to get my friend to go DI on guitar THROUGH A POD XT!! what is this?!

so, my point is, the degree doesnt mean nearly as much as some real skills.

oh, and the control room/mixing room is 6 ft deep! what is that for a pro studio??