Recording my V drums on Zoom R8 portable recorder

K

Kenny202

Member
Hi yall.

Trying to record straight from my Roland V kit (using output from drum module) directly into the R8. Normally the sound of these drums through the PA or headphones excellent, very realistic. Seem to be getting a very boomy, reverby recording. The input levels seem to be fine, not peaking or distorting, just not a true reproduction of the drum sounds I normally get....A few questions....

1) What should I select my input channel setting? Mic / Line....... or Guitar / Bass?

2) How should I set my input levels. Should I have the volume on the drums up high and adjust input
levels down with Zoom gain or the other way around?

3) The Zoom has been recently factory reset and latest firmware installed so should be no settings
against the track ie reverb etc. Or is there a setting I should be turning off / on?

4) Is this the way V drums would normally be recorded onto a mix or would I be better off micing the PA
to capture the drum sounds?

I should also qualify my V drums are very basic. One stereo cable out. No midi out. No real internal adjustments or EQ on the module. But as I said normally very good sound through my PA and I thought it would be an easy matter to just hook them up to my 8 track recorder. I am using a fairly good set of monitoring headphones (Flat response) to monitor from the recorder. maybe I would be better off monitoring from the PA?

Any help or advice appreciated
 
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My very basic set of Roland V Drums Lite has both a headphone out and a line out from the module. Which one are you using?

2 cents worth of morning chat.

Mick
 
Plug your headphones into the drum module, is that the same thing you are hearing through the zoom?

You should have the zoom set to line level. No guitar or bass.

How are you hooking it up? If you are hooking up a stereo output to a single balanced line input, you will get nothing but reverb and cymbals and anything not panned to the center.

If you have a left and right out on the drum module, you need to have a cable from each going to two inputs on the zoom. If you only have a stereo output, like a headphone jack, you will need to get an adapter that splits the stereo signal into left and right outputs that you can attach to inputs 1 and 2 on the zoom.
 
Farview said:
Plug your headphones into the drum module, is that the same thing you are hearing through the zoom?

You should have the zoom set to line level. No guitar or bass.

How are you hooking it up? If you are hooking up a stereo output to a single balanced line input, you will get nothing but reverb and cymbals and anything not panned to the center.

If you have a left and right out on the drum module, you need to have a cable from each going to two inputs on the zoom. If you only have a stereo output, like a headphone jack, you will need to get an adapter that splits the stereo signal into left and right outputs that you can attach to inputs 1 and 2 on the zoom.
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It is a HD3 so there is only one output 3mm stereo jack and headphone out. The sound from the headphones on the module is great, headphones from the R8 terrible. It does sound like you have hit the nail on the head though. Sounds pretty much like what I am getting. But why wouldn't I get the same result plugging into my PA which is single input 1/4"? (Laney AH150). Would that be an adaptor I need or a ready made cable?
 
One stereo line out? Guessing that's from the headphone outs then. If that's what it is, you'll need a Y cable to split the stereo cable into 2 mono cables. Then go into the Zoom using 2 inputs. Set to Line. Pan one channel hard left and the other hard right. If it is the headphone outs, I would say set the volume to 1/2. At least as a starting point.

Set each channel Gain to fully counter-clockwise. Set each Fader to Unity, or maybe it's Zero on the Zoom. Don't know, but it's around 3/4 the way up. As you're playing the drum, turn the gain up on each channel until the meters are in the green with occasional excursions into the yellow. You want to avoid going into the red.
 
Chili said:
One stereo line out? Guessing that's from the headphone outs then. If that's what it is, you'll need a Y cable to split the stereo cable into 2 mono cables. Then go into the Zoom using 2 inputs. Set to Line. Pan one channel hard left and the other hard right. If it is the headphone outs, I would say set the volume to 1/2. At least as a starting point.

Set each channel Gain to fully counter-clockwise. Set each Fader to Unity, or maybe it's Zero on the Zoom. Don't know, but it's around 3/4 the way up. As you're playing the drum, turn the gain up on each channel until the meters are in the green with occasional excursions into the yellow. You want to avoid going into the red.
Click to expand...
No its not the headphone out, but the "Output" jack. They are both 1/8" stereo so I guess they are basically the same thing. I will order a Y cable tomorrow hopefully I can find one. I'm in Thailand. I'm an electrician have a soldering iron, how would I wire that? I guess you are changing one 1/8" stereo jack to 2 x 1/4" mono cables?
 
Looking at the manual, it has a separate output jack, but willing to bet it is basically the same as a headphone jack. So, all the advice given still applies.

It does have MIDI, but you would need a virtual instrument to generate the sounds, like ezdrummer.
 
There is a midi out actually, never noticed it before. Not that I would want to record like that anyway...I really like the sound of this kit

The symptoms you guys describe certainly sound like you hit the nail on the head. Like it is lacking in something or some of the drums distant. I noted though the cymbals sounded better than normal lol. What I don't understand though is wouldn't I get the same crappy sound on my PA when I plugged into one mono input?
 
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Kenny202 said:
It is a HD3 so there is only one output 3mm stereo jack and headphone out. The sound from the headphones on the module is great, headphones from the R8 terrible. It does sound like you have hit the nail on the head though. Sounds pretty much like what I am getting. But why wouldn't I get the same result plugging into my PA which is single input 1/4"? (Laney AH150). Would that be an adaptor I need or a ready made cable?
Click to expand...
The pa doesn't have a balanced input, so it ignores the ring on the trs cable.

On a balanced input, the tip and the ring are out of phase. On a stereo input, the tip and the ring are left and right. So when you plug a stereo signal into a balanced input, you end up with the left and the right out of phase and summed together. That will leave you with a mono signal that only has the difference between the left and right channel, or everything that is panned away from center and nothing panned to the middle.

You need to get an adapter for an insert jack. So you can plug into the left and right on the zoom. You could also use a TS cable, like a guitar cable to connect to the zoom, you will only get the left channel, but that's all you were getting out of the pa.
 
Kenny202 said:
No its not the headphone out, but the "Output" jack. They are both 1/8" stereo so I guess they are basically the same thing. I will order a Y cable tomorrow hopefully I can find one. I'm in Thailand. I'm an electrician have a soldering iron, how would I wire that? I guess you are changing one 1/8" stereo jack to 2 x 1/4" mono cables?
Click to expand...
Yes you would connect the tip of the trs to the tip of one ts and the ring of the trs to the tip of the other ts. Then you would connect all the sleeves together.
 
Going to try and get a Y cable tomorrow. Just not sure if they will be available where I live. It shouldn't be too hard to make one I guess. There will be two hot cables off the stereo jack.....one of each to the mono 1/4" plugs and all the grounds will be common?
 
Thanks so much for your help everybody. I am certain that is the problem. And the symptoms are exactly as described. Like there is a hole in the middle of the output sound if that makes sense. I've got my guitar bass and vocals sorted, no where to put the mics etc the drums are the last piece of the puzzle. Will report back tomorrow when I make or buy the cable
 
Thanks so much for your help everybody. I am certain that is the problem. And the symptoms are exactly as described. Like there is a hole in the middle of the output sound if that makes sense. I've got my guitar bass and vocals sorted, no where to put the mics etc the drums are the last piece of the puzzle. Will report back tomorrow when I make or buy the cable
 
Oh by the way, my PA is just a single speaker multi instrument type thing but does the job well. I bought it for the drums and solo guitar and vocals. Would there be any benefit to hooking the drums up with a Y cable in the same fashion to the PA using 2 inputs? Would it be a better sound or no real advantage? By balanced input I am guessing you mean the recorder is set up to produce stereo, my PA is not.

And the inputs on the R8 are not stereo? Each of the inputs are only mono right?

Another idea I got, and not ideal but in a pinch...what about a 1/4" adapter plug. One that I plug my 1/8" inch cable / plug into the back of it. That's what I am using now but its a stereo 1/4" jack. What if I got a 1/4" male mono adapter? and plugged the 1/8" male stereo jack into that? Would that work?

Or an 1/8" mono to 1/4" jack cable? Like you said just get one side same as what I am doing now with the PA. Is there any benefit to going into two separate tracks? I am only making rough demos and not concerned about stereo. As long as it sounds as good as it does the way it normally sounds form the PA I am happy.
 
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A balanced signal is when an output device takes a mono signal, splits it and reverses the polarity of one of the splits and sends it down a 3 conductor cable tip and ring having the signal and the sleeve being common). The receiving device takes the two versions of the signal and inverts the polarity of one of them and sums them together. This serves to put any noise picked up in the cable out of phase with itself to cancel it out.

A stereo signal can be sent down the same cable, on the left signal is on the tip and the right signal is on the ring. This is one example of why you shouldn't confuse the type of cable (or connector) with the type of signal it is carrying.

Since you were taking a stereo signal and plugging it into a balanced input (not a stereo input), this is what caused the problem.

You could get a 1/8 to 1/4 TS adapter and it will work, but I don't know if shorting out the ring and the sleeve will have any long term effects on the module.

After looking at the amp, you could get a 1/8 stereo to rca adapter (much easier to find) and an rca cable and plug into channel 5 on the amp. Also, if you go with 1/4, you can plug the left and right into channel 4 of the amp. Those channels are expecting stereo signals.
 
Oh well I found a very simple solution. Just use a 1/8" mono jack into the module and out to one 1/4" mono. Sounds perfect. Am I losing anything by doing this. Clearly not stereo as it was designed to produce. Would it be a whole lot better if I did take the stereo into 2 of the recorder inputs?
 
You are just losing the right channel, anything that is panned right you won't hear. If you haven't missed it through the PA system, you likely won't miss it on the recording.
 
Got my Y cable this morning and worked perfectly. I recorded firstly using stereo mode on the track, which automatically assigns 2 tracks one panned left and other right. Just didn't seem to play back in stereo? Only coming through one side of the headphones. I then just recorded to tracks simultaneously one panned left and other right and sound was mint. I would've expected to get the same sound out of each headphone but left side seems to accentuate kick and cymbals, while the other side more emphasis on high hat and snare. Input levels for both tracks were set to produce the same levels on the meters but I did notice I did need the gain turned down more on track one to achieve equal input levels? Why would that be? In any case the result was excellent. Really nice crisp cymbals / high hats and great everything else. Actually can say the recorded sound is better than my little single speaker PA now as it should be. Thanks again all for the help :-)
 
There may be a way to mix the individual drum sounds in the module. You might be able to adjust the panning and volume of each drum and cymbal.
 
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