Recording my slightly less than standard kit...

[drummerdude666]

Hey,
My kit is finally complete. BUT i need help in recording it!

Mics i can use..
Oktava MK-012-01 (pair)
SM57
MXL 992

Cheap drum mic set with 3 crap overheads.
4 tom mic (can sound nice)
Kick mic (i've had nice results)

The cheap mics are the ones you see on ebay all the time... I think stagg have put there name on the same product but mine are called 'collins'

Im running into a Yamaha 01x but with no outboard gear. The kit isnt a DW...it's a Pearl ELX.
I'm using Performance IIs (batter side) and Evans g1 (reso) although I have many heads - ambastors (coated and clear), pinstipes, g2 coated etc.

I have most of the usual heads as I can tune properly so i make full use of the heads differnt qualities.
The issue is mic placement and which mics i should use. I've been experimenting but nothings coming out quite right.

Any help is appriciated, Thanks in advance.

 

[Tim Brown]

The following is based on the assumption that your room is okay sounding, and that you can tune. Sadly, most of the drummers I've met couldn't tune worth a crap.


Overheads:
Draw a straight line with the Snare and the 8x10" dead in the center. Place one Oktavia out in front and aim it at the snare, place the other Oktavia behind you and aim it at the snare.

The Pair of overheads should give you a true stereo image of the drumkit.
I would roll off about 6 to 9 db's of midrange (centered around 750 hz. if you have a sweepable mid.) (play with the EQ some - this is what generally works for me though - it just helps "tighten up" the stereo pair for me....but I have a Mackie 1604 VLZ pro.)

Kick:
Take a chair or something like that (I use a pair of Folding plastic sawhorses that I bought at Lowes for around $12) and set it about 24" in front of the Kick drum. Drape several layers of heavy blankets over this and the front of your kick drum. Voila! Kick drum tunnel. Stick the Kick mic in there, and that will help isolate the Kick drum's mic - yet allow you to mic out in front of the Kick instead of inside the drum.

Roll off some of the mids. But be forewarned, a lot of the actual "Thump in the kick" will really be in the low mid range - say 100 to 200 hz.)


Snare:
SM57 about 12" from snare in under hi-hate, and aimed at snare shell. This will help add Body to the snare's track, and fatten up the snare when you mix it with the overheads.

Now, as long as you can play with good dynamics - this should be all you need to record a good clean stereo mix of the drumkit.


Tuning is the most important factor in this situation.

Also, if you want to add some REAL thump to the kick, you can wire up a speaker with a Mic cable, and use it as a giant "kick drum woofer-mic" and stick that under the tunnel - that will give you some nut-shaking low end.

And you could close mic the mallet spot for added definition.

Personally - I don't worry so much about "mic'ing every single drum". I've got about 40 microphones, yet for the majority of my recordings - I mic each Kick, Mic the snare, and use a pair of overheads.

At first, I was all into all the gates and compressors, but after a while - It seemed like I was using all of this stuff, yet still trying to "imitate" the sound of a well tuned drumkit.

So, I went back to using overheads, paid attention to my tuining, and got some bombastic drumsounds.

Tuning Tip - tune your bottom heads higher than your top and tune the drums up just a little bit - meaning don' try to get the lowest note the drum will create - and those babies will sing through the overheads.


Tim

 

[drummerdude666]

Thankyou for your quick reply, I remebered your name and searched for past posts and realised I was speaking to you a few days ago telling people how to do one handed rolls.

I can tune - thankfully i've always been able to do it, I've never understood how many drummers cant tune their own instrument. But then again I've never understood why there are so many very poor drummers who can't play for toffee.

I'll try out your detailed reply tomorrow. Hear's a clip of one of my pupils playing drums that I recorded a few days ago using the MK012 as spaced overheads, the crap kick mic 4" away from inside batter head, inside the kick, and the sm57 on snare. Quick mixing and presets iIve created to create a decent kick sound with the crap mic I have.

The drumming is just him messing around building ideas for a solo.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/tribalfire_music.htm

you want to listen to the 'oktava drum test'

 

[drummerdude666]

Heres how I'm pictureing it....but is this right? I think i've misunderstood as i cant see how this creates a stereo image.

And the 57 at the shell? ok.. I will give it a go.

Also the kit drum mic is where? under the chair? Is the kick reso head off? If not is it better ported or not?

Anything else I can do to improve the sound? Anybody else's thoughts on this?

 

[Tim Brown]

That is exactly right on how to place the overheads. Also, I would put them about 6 feet up....lower and you'll pick up more toms, higher and you'll pick up more cymbals.

It creates a true stereo image with the snare and that tom in the center.


Yes, put the kick drum mic in the "tunnel" under the chair. Try it however you like it - I use full front heads without a hole in them. You could also build a little fram out of PVC pipe instead of using a chair, or I've even seen guys use a cardboard box. and had the mic between the box and the kick.


The blankets need to touch the floor on each side, because you want to isolate that area in front of the kick as much as possible. That will help keep the snare and cymbals out of the kick's mic.

 

[drummerdude666]

Thankyou again Tim. I still can't see how that creates a stereo image...But you what i dont care, if it works then that's all that matters.

With the tunnel the only thing I dont understand is that wont the thump of the kick go...isn't that why people mic inside the drum to get the attack of the beater? Also will my crappy mic pic up a good enough sound, or is this method relying on a good kick mic?

 

[Tim Brown]

Thankyou again Tim. I still can't see how that creates a stereo image...But you what i dont care, if it works then that's all that matters.

With the tunnel the only thing I dont understand is that wont the thump of the kick go...isn't that why people mic inside the drum to get the attack of the beater? Also will my crappy mic pic up a good enough sound, or is this method relying on a good kick mic?

You'll have to try it and find out.

The Reson you aren't getting it is that, you're still thinking in the terms of Kick on the Right, Hi-hat on the left. Normally, with "standard" overhead micing techniques, most of the stuff is on the right hand of the kit. By mic'ing it the way I'm showing you it evenly splits the drumkit with the snare in the middle.(I didn't invenet this. Australian Producer/Engineer John Sayers - right here on Hom Rec - is where I learned it)


For more info on this do a search on John Sayers, and you should be able to find what he wrote about this.
I can't really explain this overhead technique , other than to say it made my recordings seem, a lot "wider" and more of a "stereo" image than what I had before.




I was wrong...the mic'ing placement is right, the line was wrong. I don't what I was thinking, and I knew that the picture didn't look right.
Draw the line through the Kick and Snare.

That will give you th stereo image I was talking about.


Tim

 

[drummerdude666]

I see... this is what i use when recording standard 5 piece set ups. Also like i asked in the post before about the kick having enough attack, with my crap kick mic?

I've put the mics where i think you mean... sorry if im repeating myself. i just want to make sure i've totally understood you correctly.

This is new image correct?

Thankyou for helping me so much and being so patient

 

[Tim Brown]

The Line is just the center line that is the divider where the sterreo image is.
The Mic placement is still the same.

One mic back behind your floor tom, and one in front of the hi-hat with both aimed at the center of the snare.

Like I said, you'll have to try the kick mic placement to see how it goes for you. What is enough attack for me may not be enough for you. Normally, if I'm after a ton of attack - I'll trigger.

 

[drummerdude666]

Thankyou. I'll post my results as soon as i have some spare time... which might be a few days. Thankyou again