gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
I can dig that. I like to disagree too.
I mean.......fuck you, you're wrong!!
It's happening again . . . I agree
It's happening again . . . I agree
K
Kirk Markarian
New member
When I record, I have loud cymbals, and I have found that mic'ing just the drums sometimes makes the cymbals sit more evenly in the mix, especially if it's a smaller room. It's worth a shot - or just turn the microphones on the overheads down.
R
RAMI
Guest
But the overhead mic's are supposed to be for the WHOLE KIT. They're not cymbal mics.
Supercreep
Lizard People
C
Chibi Nappa
New member
I know we've already said this is metal, and I know we've already said the drummer is supposed to hit the cymbals loud, but when these problems arise 80% of the time it is because the drummer is hitting the cymbals too loud.
And yes, if it is too loud for recording it is too loud for live. I don't buy the whole "record differently than you play" bit. I can tell you that from experiance.
The problem with recording questions like this is that nobody wants to hear the answer. People post the question looking for the technique to move the recording forward right now. The answer that comes back is essentially "practice the performance for a few more weeks/months". When money is on the line that can't be recovered, you can also bring in a professional studio musician to ghost-drum and then spend the next year calming down your real drummer.
But in some cases it actually can be the room. Your room sounds like it is small enough to possibly cause trouble. Try and rent a church or something. The bigger the better if you're trying to let cymbals dissipate.
And yes, if it is too loud for recording it is too loud for live. I don't buy the whole "record differently than you play" bit. I can tell you that from experiance.
The problem with recording questions like this is that nobody wants to hear the answer. People post the question looking for the technique to move the recording forward right now. The answer that comes back is essentially "practice the performance for a few more weeks/months". When money is on the line that can't be recovered, you can also bring in a professional studio musician to ghost-drum and then spend the next year calming down your real drummer.
But in some cases it actually can be the room. Your room sounds like it is small enough to possibly cause trouble. Try and rent a church or something. The bigger the better if you're trying to let cymbals dissipate.
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1
1sttake studio
New member
acoustic treatment
Yea i do have acoustic treatment, but it is not placed permanently, what would be the best way to set the drum kit up and to place the pannels??
i am using AKG C418 mics on the 4 toms and 2 SM57 on the snare with AKG C1000's as over heads with a D112 on the kick, so no i am not using shity mics in a shitty room
Yea i do have acoustic treatment, but it is not placed permanently, what would be the best way to set the drum kit up and to place the pannels??
i am using AKG C418 mics on the 4 toms and 2 SM57 on the snare with AKG C1000's as over heads with a D112 on the kick, so no i am not using shity mics in a shitty room
C
Chibi Nappa
New member
A few things to keep in mind if you can't get a new room (or even if you can).
C1000's are bright as heck. I often find them too grating for overheads even for softer songs (But they can be killer on guitar cabs and snares!). If the cymbals are too much, try different mics. Maybe even the 57s. No way of knowing without being in the room and hearing it.
I wouldn't record any drum track without a room mic (unless I would. Exceptions and all that). Try giving up one overhead to gain one room mic, especially if the cymbals are too much. Hell, try giving both of them up for two room mics. Just walk around the room and find the spot were the kit sounds exactly like you want the final mixed drum recording. If there is no place in the room like that, tune, move, and tweak until there is. This is where your treatment panels also come in. Can't possibly tell you where to put them wihtout being in the room. But when you have a spot that sounds right, your treatment is right. Put a mic in that spot. Height is vitally important.
Volume is relative. If the cymbals are too loud, it means they are too loud in relation to the drums. If there is no way to hit the cymbals softer without losing the tone, hit the drums harder. Or maybe a bit of both. Again, there must be a place in the room where the sound coming to your ear is exactly what you want.
You can make physical barriers. Maybe hang a large hardcover book from a mic stand in between your cymbal and your room mic. Maybe do something more conventional.
After your room mics/overheads (or just overheads or just room mics or whatever got you "that sound") are in place, listen carefully to see what could use "more". Only put up the close mics you need to get that "more". Only attempt to capture the exact "more" you need in each close mic. As an example (and this is an odd one that I usually don't run into), my last project had LOADS of low bass thump in the room mic. It fit so well that I had no reason to capture any real lows with my close kick mic. I felt I needed more kick attack, so my close kick mic ended up halfway back on the side of the kick shell getting a killer attack and not much in the low end. As a more "normal" example, often times you can get all of the snare tone and decay in the far mics, but need more thwappy-meat. So you put your close mic up where it really gets the dull "oomph" of the drum skin even though there really is no crispy tone in there.
Check your sound after every mic placement. Don't move to the next mic if there is anything you don't like.
Forget about bleed. Even if there is gobs of it. If you got the sound you need, you got it.
And keep that drummer's dynamics in line!
C1000's are bright as heck. I often find them too grating for overheads even for softer songs (But they can be killer on guitar cabs and snares!). If the cymbals are too much, try different mics. Maybe even the 57s. No way of knowing without being in the room and hearing it.
I wouldn't record any drum track without a room mic (unless I would. Exceptions and all that). Try giving up one overhead to gain one room mic, especially if the cymbals are too much. Hell, try giving both of them up for two room mics. Just walk around the room and find the spot were the kit sounds exactly like you want the final mixed drum recording. If there is no place in the room like that, tune, move, and tweak until there is. This is where your treatment panels also come in. Can't possibly tell you where to put them wihtout being in the room. But when you have a spot that sounds right, your treatment is right. Put a mic in that spot. Height is vitally important.
Volume is relative. If the cymbals are too loud, it means they are too loud in relation to the drums. If there is no way to hit the cymbals softer without losing the tone, hit the drums harder. Or maybe a bit of both. Again, there must be a place in the room where the sound coming to your ear is exactly what you want.
You can make physical barriers. Maybe hang a large hardcover book from a mic stand in between your cymbal and your room mic. Maybe do something more conventional.
After your room mics/overheads (or just overheads or just room mics or whatever got you "that sound") are in place, listen carefully to see what could use "more". Only put up the close mics you need to get that "more". Only attempt to capture the exact "more" you need in each close mic. As an example (and this is an odd one that I usually don't run into), my last project had LOADS of low bass thump in the room mic. It fit so well that I had no reason to capture any real lows with my close kick mic. I felt I needed more kick attack, so my close kick mic ended up halfway back on the side of the kick shell getting a killer attack and not much in the low end. As a more "normal" example, often times you can get all of the snare tone and decay in the far mics, but need more thwappy-meat. So you put your close mic up where it really gets the dull "oomph" of the drum skin even though there really is no crispy tone in there.
Check your sound after every mic placement. Don't move to the next mic if there is anything you don't like.
Forget about bleed. Even if there is gobs of it. If you got the sound you need, you got it.
And keep that drummer's dynamics in line!
Supercreep
Lizard People
1sttake studio said:
I think you will find little enthusiasm for the C1000 here.
Again, have you tried turning up the close mics and down the overheads? Compressing the overheads or room mic is going to give you even more brass.
C
Chibi Nappa
New member
Careful with that. You can end up with very claustrophobic drums that way. Leave that volume change to the drummer himself.
R
RAMI
Guest
OK, I use the same mics as you, without the 4 tom mics and only one 57 on the snare. In other words, I mic my kit with 4 mics: A pair of C1000s, D-112, and sm57 on the snare.
One possibility is that, using all those mics, you might be having phasing issues which are screwing up your recorded drum volumes.
1
1sttake studio
New member
thanks alot guys!!!
will try out some of your suggestions and let you know what i get out of it!!!!!!
will try out some of your suggestions and let you know what i get out of it!!!!!!
lollygagger8
New member
I never, ever, ever compress overheads.
If the drummer sucks bad enough to not control how he hits, then tell him to stick to live shows.........and to change out his ZBT cymbals. lol j/k
I agree with using the C1000's as room mics instead of overheads. Pull them away from the cymbals. Those mics aren't greatest sounding mics (sorry no offense) It might help get away from the "tinnyness" (if that's a word) those mics are assoc with.
If the drummer sucks bad enough to not control how he hits, then tell him to stick to live shows.........and to change out his ZBT cymbals. lol j/k
I agree with using the C1000's as room mics instead of overheads. Pull them away from the cymbals. Those mics aren't greatest sounding mics (sorry no offense) It might help get away from the "tinnyness" (if that's a word) those mics are assoc with.
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