Recording metal/distorted guitar.

[philbagg]

Recording with 2/multiple mics has its benefits.

I doesn't just make the signal louder, unless you're using two of the exact same mic in virtually the same place - in which case all you're doing is introducing the possibility of phasing issues, just to make it louder.

Different mics have different frequency responses. Example: You could throw a 57 on one speaker for the presence of the cab, and then a D112 to pick up the low-end detail.

Now, I know you'll end up cutting out most of that super low-end, but it's just an example.

Also, using multiple mics allows you to play with phase. Sometimes phasing is what you want to avoid as we all know, but sometimes playing with the phase of multiple inputs can alter the sound for the better. It's like EQ'ing the sound before it goes to tape.

There's also the example of using one mic about half an inch from the speaker, then one or two dotted around the room to pick up a more ambient tone. The two can really blend together to get a huge sound, especially with good placement in the stereo field.

Then again, there's also just giving yourself options. You might throw 3 or 4 mics on the one source, and then decide to keep one when it comes to mixdown. It mightn't be clear what you want to use when tracking, but it can become more evident later on.

 

[suprstar]

Right, I can make it plenty loud, dont need a 2nd track for that I supposed in the case of a d112 you would pick up a lot of woofy lows, freq's that a 57 can't pick up. Is that it then, just getting a broader freq response? You couldn't acheive that by just boosting the lows on the 57 track? Or is it a matter of 'cuts are better than boosts'? Or you could tap the d112 track up a db or 2 if you decide you want a little more low end instead of playing with the eq. ie clean actual lows vs an eq boost which is kinda creating something that isn't there. idk I'm not satisfied yet..

 

[philbagg]

Is that it then, just getting a broader freq response? You couldn't acheive that by just boosting the lows on the 57 track?

This question could be similarly asked when using just one mic.

Why do you pick certain mics for certain jobs? Even if the mics you have to choose from all range from 20Hz-20kHz? Some just do the job better than others. 9 times out of ten, you will get better results from getting the right sound at the source, rather than trying to EQ it afterwards.

It's not even frequency response. You can't emulate how a mic picks up the sound (ie response to transients etc.) with EQ.

It's almost like trying to EQ a pair of PC speakers to make em sound like Genelecs. It ain't gonna happen.

And also, it's more things than just frequency response. It's ambience aswell, among other things. You could easily get a bigger guitar sound with multiple mics than just one.

I'd still advise double/triple tracking the takes. Multiple mics on one source is no substitute for that. But there's no reason you can't do both. And at least when you use multiple mics, you can mute all but one if you'd like. But, if you only use one, and discover you'd like more, you can't add something that ain't there.

 

[ez_willis]

There's a book on mixing with Reaper that is almost entirely dedicated to teaching people how to do that very technique.

this one? .

 

[philbagg]

Also, what about acoustic guitars?

They are constantly stereo miked.

I personally love the mid-side technique. One of the main advantages of that is having a "Remote control" for your stereo width.

Even then, with two or three mics/inputs for your basic guitar sound, there's a room mic or two sometimes thrown in aswell.

Seasoned engineers wouldn't be doing this for years if all it did was make it louder

 

[Siaip Ciuvas]

Then a dynamic mic 2-5 inches away from the speaker at the 45 degree angle pointed at the center of the cone.

Secondly, I've heard a number of people suggest 'multi-tracking'. What do they mean by that?

Equipment used:
Line 6 Bogner tube head(HD100)
Fender DT 412 cab(vintage 30's)
Agile Les Paul(EMG 85/81)
Shure SM58

I have to dissapoint you, that you guitar is not up to a "good metal sound", but active pups will help a lot to mask crap wood. My experience says, that for begginers best result will be getting 1 (ONE) SM57, puttin it as you said above (but then also try to go 1-2 inches "off center"). Usually works wonders.
The other pitfall for begginers - too much gain on an amp. Don't overdo it, as the result will be a mess. Its not amp gain which screams in the record, believe me. I have made really heavy record with strat, single coils and low gain EF86 based amp. If you want more power - run you DI'd bass through Ampeg SVX VST, add some gain there and then boost bass around 800 hz on the channel strip. It may help. I see that this amp has 6L6s in the power section, so no need to burn them to get that juice, but then use volume knob to push the speakers till they distort and pull back a bit till the don't - that will be the sweet spot. Hey - be carefull with your ears.

then add two tracks on your DAW, play one take, pan it hard left, then record another take on the other track, pan it hard right. Thats what they call "double tracking". If you want wall of sounds, you can add more layers using octaves, different chords and even acoustics or clean guitar. Only you fantasy is the limit, but it has to sound good at the end

Good luck. Post something when you are done.

 

[suprstar]

A 57 pointed at the center sounds like ass (ime), All fizz / buzz, no meat. I never go anywhere near the center, I avoid it like the plague.. Im not a pro who gets great tone or anything, but I definitely know what I DONT like.

 

[philbagg]

A 57 pointed at the center sounds like ass (ime)

My experience too.

 

[recordman]

A 57 pointed at the center sounds like ass (ime), All fizz / buzz, no meat. I never go anywhere near the center, I avoid it like the plague.. Im not a pro who gets great tone or anything, but I definitely know what I DONT like.

this is correct

 

[Dogbreath]

All fizz / buzz, no meat.
sounds like my ass

especially after beans.

(hopefully no meat )

 

[benherron.rrr]

personally I do what the guy mentioned in the first post.
As little as I know of the subject, all i can say for deffinate is that there is no perfect answer its about doing what sounds good to you. which indeed is the art of mic placement, like for acoustic guitar I get 2 condencers place one 6inches from the sound hole which captures the lows and a mic 6 inches from the 12th fret which is where all the nice harmonic highs are. Like with an amp, i like giving the mics some space, what difference does it really make wher you use 2 mics as close up to the cone at different corners, I find I like the technique he said at the beggining, it yeilds a good result with a nice feeling of natural space without it being too noticable. anyway isnt that the purpose of amps anyway, to be listened to from a distance? if they are that close you might as well just DI the guitar. just like many people have told me that small amps have a better sound than huge ones, generally because you can capture more detail. The best advice ive ever read on recording guitars is that it should come from the source, if you record a track and aint happy with the tone, than go and fiddle with the amp untill you like to tone on there. afterall the sound you record is ALWAYS going to be that sound, so you get a better result if you get it right from the start, using the after effects just to add that last piece of sweetness

 

[thebigcheese]

No, it's called ReaMix.

And it's not the same as just EQing the one track because you are also utilizing panning. And it's not the same as doubling (multiple recordings) because it will still sound like the same guitar at the same time.

For instance, you might EQ one of the split tracks to emphasize brightness, then EQ the other to emphasize fullness or body (the lower end), then pan them a bit apart. You can also use that technique to wrap the instrument around another instrument or voice to give it space in the mix. You can also delay one of the tracks to help with the space. It works pretty well and is very transparent, by which I mean that you don't notice that it's been done, but it really helps bring out all the goodness from the instrument.

 

[Siaip Ciuvas]

well, it all depends on your hands, guitar, amp, speakers. To me with my Marshall JCM800 w/1936V (V30s) and other low gain valve amps that always worked best. And if you look into my post I advice going slightly (1-2 inches) off center, because dead center can be spikey at times (once again - strongly depended on da geetar). More you go off center, less definition you get, more bass you gain.

here is my band I have recorded at home, all guitars mic'ed this way using my own built 1x12" and 15W Ceriatone Creme Brulee cranked all way up:

http://www.reverbnation.com/moondust

I've been recording with two more mics, but stayed with SM57 only, angled ~30 degrees, ~2 inches from grille, ~1 inch off center.

Then I have to repeat - every component - playing style, guitar, amp, speakers/cab is a part of equasion.

 

[thebigcheese]

personally I do what the guy mentioned in the first post.
As little as I know of the subject, all i can say for deffinate is that there is no perfect answer its about doing what sounds good to you. which indeed is the art of mic placement, like for acoustic guitar I get 2 condencers place one 6inches from the sound hole which captures the lows and a mic 6 inches from the 12th fret which is where all the nice harmonic highs are. Like with an amp, i like giving the mics some space, what difference does it really make wher you use 2 mics as close up to the cone at different corners, I find I like the technique he said at the beggining, it yeilds a good result with a nice feeling of natural space without it being too noticable. anyway isnt that the purpose of amps anyway, to be listened to from a distance? if they are that close you might as well just DI the guitar. just like many people have told me that small amps have a better sound than huge ones, generally because you can capture more detail. The best advice ive ever read on recording guitars is that it should come from the source, if you record a track and aint happy with the tone, than go and fiddle with the amp untill you like to tone on there. afterall the sound you record is ALWAYS going to be that sound, so you get a better result if you get it right from the start, using the after effects just to add that last piece of sweetness

I'm not sure most people would say small amps are preferable, but most people would probably say that lower wattage amps are preferable because you can crank them up louder to get a better sound. But a smaller amp (well, speaker cab, really) isn't going to move as much air, so you're not going to get a very full sound. It could be fine in a mix, I suppose, but it won't be that great on its own.

 

[Siaip Ciuvas]

it pretty much depends on the amp. EL84 based amps sounds best, when power valves are saturating. Everything else is a matter of your production/mixing strategy. There are loads huge sounding guitar tracks recorded with 15W amp through 1x12 speaker. IIRC Audioslave Cochise is one of them.

Other strategy can be using several amps - getting definition from one, gain from the other, lowend from the third, etc. But for home recording its overkill

 

[suprstar]

I'm not sure most people would say small amps are preferable, but most people would probably say that lower wattage amps are preferable because you can crank them up louder to get a better sound. But a smaller amp (well, speaker cab, really) isn't going to move as much air, so you're not going to get a very full sound. It could be fine in a mix, I suppose, but it won't be that great on its own.

I like little amps. I got a little 5w epi valve jr head that sounds great when you open it up and it starts honkin'. And beleive me, 5 watts can be PLENTY loud, you'd be suprised! Not JCM800 loud or anything, but we're talking basement studios here... You gotta juice up those tubes - I got a 100w 1/2stack I can't crank loud enough to get a good saturated sound without pissing off my entire block.

 

[gcapel]

I would agree that for the big distorted sound that a 12" speaker is better. I think it's going to depend on the amp and speaker type to decide mic placement. It's best if your not sure to record samples of different placements and go listen back to back to decide.

 

[thebigcheese]

I like little amps. I got a little 5w epi valve jr head that sounds great when you open it up and it starts honkin'. And beleive me, 5 watts can be PLENTY loud, you'd be suprised! Not JCM800 loud or anything, but we're talking basement studios here... You gotta juice up those tubes - I got a 100w 1/2stack I can't crank loud enough to get a good saturated sound without pissing off my entire block.

You're still missing my point. I'm agreeing with you about the small wattage, I'm just saying I wouldn't use a speaker any less than 12". I wouldn't call that a small amp, I'd call it a low-wattage amp.

 

[suprstar]

I'm just saying I wouldn't use a speaker any less than 12".

I hear ya, me neither. In fact I don't even own any guitar speakers that aren't 12"! But yeah I do agree with ya, I just got kinda excited and didnt notice "(well, speaker cab, really)" in your post a few back.....

 

[thebigcheese]

I hear ya, me neither. In fact I don't even own any guitar speakers that aren't 12"! But yeah I do agree with ya, I just got kinda excited and didnt notice "(well, speaker cab, really)" in your post a few back.....

I actually won't even buy an amp unless I can run it at a low wattage. There are a lot of amps out there I really liked, but when I was amp shopping, most of them were out of the question because they put out 50 or 100 watts. I figure if I need more than 15 watts, I'd be playing somewhere they'd mic my cab anyway.