Recording Live

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BrendonW

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Hey all, I'm new here. I"m glad I finally found a place to ask about recording/pro audio.

I'm the drummer in our youth band at church. We have a Mackie 1642-VLZ PRO sound board. Here is what we want to be able to do:

1. Play live
2. Have recording softwarer running on the computer saving the channels seperately so we can come back in and EQ, adjust volumes, etc... to certain channels on the saved file from the perfomance.
3. Save the fine tweaked version for later listening.

Now, I know how to run a line directly from an aux out on the sound board to the microphone in on the computer, but I also know that te microphone in on the computer is not capable of having 16 channels from a sound board running thru it. We're going to need some hardware and software to do what we want, btu I don't know what to get. I was thinking we need something like the Lexicon Omega Desktop Recording Studio, http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/bigpid/base_id/109839/, but that doesn't give us NEAR the ammount of channels we need, and we want it to come directly fro the sound board since it will be recorded live. What do I need to be able to record to a computer live?

A more simple way to put it is how do bands do digital live recordings, and what is a low cost way to do it?
 
well i'm not an expert with mackie gear but if your mixer has direct outs on each channel you are off to a good start. What you will need if this is the case, is a soundcard with multiple inputs. is your computer a desktop or a laptop? if it is a laptop, you may have to go with a firewire unit, but if it is a desktop, there are a few more options including PCI. The delta 1010 may be a good choice www.midiman.com, it has 8 inputs so 8 separate channels can be recorded. I could be wrong but if you go much more than 8 channels of analog in, it is gonna start costing you big bucks. Can you get by with 8 separate channels? if not you can get two deltas and run themtogether. another option is the emu 1820 www.emu.com. others may have other suggestions as well.
 
HI BrendonW
I assume you will sub the drum mics to 2 chanells ( L&R)
This wont allow you to EQ individual drums.
If you can get away with 8 chanels this way you need an adat recorder.
Like the fostex vf160( adat 8 track)
You'll need an 8 track sound card like the Digi RME hamerfall plus sonar or cubebase.

Cheers
Bob
 
brendon. before doing anything. whats your computer configuration ?
processor ? memory ? drives etc etc .
need this info to make suggestions.
this has been covered lots of times. just search under my name for lots of tips popsted in past year. if you want free tutorials on digital recording half way down in the support section at pgmusic.com are a slew of them.
you basically need a multiple input sound card type solution.
but i need to know your computer specs to see if your current confign will do the job. peace.
 
Kedman, what do you mean? How can I do that? I'm really new to this rewcording stuff but need and want to learn about it. I want to be able to EQ the snare differently from the toms, different fo the bass, different fro the percussion/cymbals. Is it possible to put all of the toms into one channel? I'm not understanding what your saying.

Manning1, my dad built the computer. Here are the specs:

AMD Athlon XP 3200+ 2.2GHz CPU
1 gig Corsair XMS (Maybe Kingston HyperX, can't remember which, we use both)
Plextor DVD/CD burner, not sure of speeds
80gig Western DIgital 7200RPM hdd
Asus A7N8X Deluxe motherboard

It's capable of recording.

EDIT: Here's what I found with your help;

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/701340/

I'll see if we can get by with 8 channels but if not we may have to double up on them.
 
what kedman is saying is that insted of using up all of your channels on the drums, you can have all of them go to one bus and use one channel for that bus. doing this will free up many channels for other intruments but at the expense of being able to edit each drum. you can preset the EQ on each channel of the drums before you record them but once they are recorded, they will be a mix onto one track.
 
How do I do that? What kind of hardware do I need?

Thanks for the help.
 
BrendonW,

I understand how overwelming starting up can be. I'll give you a hand.
I'm no pro, but I've gone through the process.

1. You have a computer. Good. Done.

2. Software...if your going audio only (no midi), I recomend you take a look at Adobe Audition (formerly cool edit).

3. You need a sound card with multiple inputs (as many as you can afford). i.e. 8 channels means you can use 4 to mic drums, 2 for guitars, 1 for bass and 1 for vocals. Delta 1010 looks good.

4. Next you need a mixer that that has as many microphone preamps as your sound card has inputs. (8 card inputs = a mixer with at least 8 channels with a mic preamp on each).

5. You need a snake cable to connect everything.

If your sound card has 8 ins, and 8 outs, you need a snake cable with 16 connectors, 8 on each end.

It looks like the delta takes TRS and TS. These look like 1/4" guitar patch cables. The difference is TRS (Tip,Ring,Sleeve) is balanced. Balanced cables cancell out noise over long cable runs, or interference from electrical appliances near by.

Don't go with the cable brand HOSA, they're cheap, I learned the hard way. I'll leave it to someone else to recomend another.

If you plan to mix inside the computer in the software, get a mixer with 8 inserts, get the TS snake (8>8) and plug all 8 on one end HALFWAY (first click) into each insert channel on the back of the mixer. What this does is take the signal after the preamp boosts the mic level, but before the mixers EQ and volume fader. The advantages of this are bypassing the added mixer noise, and being able to use the volume faders for monitoring the live recording through headphones.

6. If you are planning to record at the same time but in different rooms, get a headphone amplifier. This will allow you to plug in multiple sets of headphones for all to hear each other.

7. You need a good set of speakers. You can probably get away with using consumer home theatre speakers for recording/tracking instruments, but you'll eventually want to look into some studio monitors. Lots about that in this forum already.

What else........
Anything I did cover you can find here:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/setting_up_your_audio_card.htm

This is a great resource for seting up.

Oh yeah, for drums....4 ins (leaving 4 for everything else) can give you 2 overheads (search stereo micing technique), bass drum, and a snare mic. If you can only go 3 mics for drums, drop the snare mic and trial&error the overheads until you are hapy with the relative balances (you should do that anyway)

sorry gotta go...

I won't go into placement (don't think I'm qualified), so google drum micing technique, and search through these forums.
 
Last edited:
JKestle said:
BrendonW,

I understand how overwelming starting up can be. I'll give you a hand.
I'm no pro, but I've gone through the process.

1. You have a computer. Good. Done.

2. Software...if your going audio only (no midi), I recomend you take a look at Adobe Audition (formerly cool edit).

3. You need a sound card with multiple inputs (as many as you can afford). i.e. 8 channels means you can use 4 to mic drums, 2 for guitars, 1 for bass and 1 for vocals. Delta 1010 looks good.

4. Next you need a mixer that that has as many microphone preamps as your sound card has inputs. (8 card inputs = a mixer with at least 8 channels with a mic preamp on each).

5. You need a snake cable to connect everything.

If your sound card has 8 ins, and 8 outs, you need a snake cable with 16 connectors, 8 on each end.

It looks like the delta takes TRS and TS. These look like 1/4" guitar patch cables. The difference is TRS (Tip,Ring,Sleeve) is balanced. Balanced cables cancell out noise over long cable runs, or interference from electrical appliances near by.

Don't go with the cable brand HOSA, they're cheap, I learned the hard way. I'll leave it to someone else to recomend another.

If you plan to mix inside the computer in the software, get a mixer with 8 inserts, get the TS snake (8>8) and plug all 8 on one end HALFWAY (first click) into each insert channel on the back of the mixer. What this does is take the signal after the preamp boosts the mic level, but before the mixers EQ and volume fader. The advantages of this are bypassing the added mixer noise, and being able to use the volume faders for monitoring the live recording through headphones.

6. If you are planning to record at the same time but in different rooms, get a headphone amplifier. This will allow you to plug in multiple sets of headphones for all to hear each other.

7. You need a good set of speakers. You can probably get away with using consumer home theatre speakers for recording/tracking instruments, but you'll eventually want to look into some studio monitors. Lots about that in this forum already.

What else........
Anything I did cover you can find here:
http://www.tweakheadz.com/setting_up_your_audio_card.htm

This is a great resource for seting up.

Oh yeah, for drums....4 ins (leaving 4 for everything else) can give you 2 overheads (search stereo micing technique), bass drum, and a snare mic. If you can only go 3 mics for drums, drop the snare mic and trial&error the overheads until you are hapy with the relative balances (you should do that anyway)

sorry gotta go...

I won't go into placement (don't think I'm qualified), so google drum micing technique, and search through these forums.










A mixer will

http://www.tweakheadz.com/setting_up_your_audio_card.htm
Click to expand...

1. Check
2. Will do, thanks.
3. Check
4. Yes we have a 16 channel board.
5. Check. We have really nice sound equipment such as the mixer, snakes, amps and speakers.
6. No, this is recorded live.
7. We have stage monitors, this is live stuff.

Thanks for the help guys, appreciate it.
 
brendon. your computer is excellent. i use amd myself.
ideally you need a second hard drive. if you can swing it.
so you can do back ups of your tracks in case one hard drive goes down hard. also multitracking works better this way.
i need to know one thing - how many tracks of instruments/vocals/mics do you need to record to seperate tracks on your pc AT THE SAME TIME.
forget the gear. tell me the performance you need. peace.
 
What do you mean? Are you asking how many of what I need?

2 Vocals
3 Guitars
1 Bass Guitar
1 Bass Drum
1 Snare
2 Overheads
3 Toms
 
do you want all that recorded to seperate tracks at the same time ?
ie...13 tracks at once ?
 
ya if you want 13 tracks recorded at once, that will either require 2 delta 1010's as mentioned, or something like an echo Layla 3G where you could have 8 channels of ADAT and 6 channels of ananlog. Basically what it boils down to is that if you want to make 13 separate tracks on your computer from one live sample, you are gonna need 13 separate inputs on your soundcard. I can't think of any soundcard that has 13 analog inputs so that is where the problem comes in. What we are suggesting is that you get a good mix on your drums before you start recording and then record all of the drums to 1 or 2 tracks insted of using up 7. on your mixer route each channel that is being used as a drum channel (whatever has a mic recoring the drums) and route it to a bus. then, insted of using each of those drum channel's direct outs, use the bus main outs. this will mix all of the drum tracks to 1 or 2 tracks insted of the 7 you propose.
 
Where do I get a bus?

How do bands that have live cd's do it?
 
BrendonW said:
Where do I get a bus?
Click to expand...

They usually stop at major intersections or along the roadway at signs labeled "Bus Stop". ;)

Couldn't help it. :cool:

Seriously, you need to spend some time reading the manual for that Mackie.
The stereo mains and the paired sub outs are busses. Each channel strip allows you to select where all you want the signal routed for that channel (which bus/busses .... or sub/main out's).

Bands that do it live either get a good mix at the board and just record the stereo output or they have the proper gear to accommodate the amount of I/O they need for individual simultaneous tracking.
 
Uhh, I don't know. I'm not really sure what I'm looking for.

Can that thing go directly into the computer?

What is a fostex?
 
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