Recording Kick Drum?

[bohunk06]

Anybody have some tricks up there sleeve for this? I have been recording my drums for a while. Over the past few years, I have really worked out decent sounding snare, toms, and cymbols. But for some reason, the kick is the one thing I just can't get happy with. I have tried all kinds of tricks. First off, I am using a Shure Beta52 which I run into my FirePod and into Cubase Studio 4. I have even tried running it through my TubePre.

Once I get it in, I have messed with compression, EQ, the works, to get a good sound. I can get good attack and good punch, but not a lot of low end body. So I try scooping out the mids. Which gives it a little better low end body, but loses punch. I know there are probably a thousand ways to solve my problem. Can some one help? I am not opposed to buying other equipment that might help (within reason for price). I just don't know what that equipment might be.

Thanks!!

 

[WhiteStrat]

Do you have a large diaphragm condenser mic? Sometimes I'll use my dynamic (like your 52, but I use a D112) up in the hole, but put an LDC a couple/few feet away from the kick with a "tunnel" of blankets giving it some isolation. Gets some nice bottom end that way. Mix the two to taste.

And sometimes (seriously) I'll do the above with a 57 on the beater side by the drummers foot. That one gets more "smack." Now I've got three sounds to mix and find a good kick sound.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Once I get it in, I have messed with compression, EQ, the works, to get a good sound.

By then it's halfway too late. If you don't record a good sound, you'll never be able to synthesize a good sound out of what you record.

First, make sure your kick is tuned properly. Listen to somebody else play the kit, it'll sound entirely different standing out in front than it does sitting at the throne.

Then work on mic placement. For more boom and ring with less punch, try moving the mic further from the beater. Also play with adjusting the distance of the mic from the skin to taste.

get it sounding as good as you can in these ways; the less you're forced to have to mess with the recorded signal, the better the results.

And once it is in the box, instead of "scooping out the mids" like if you're performing a frontal lobotomy with a soup spoon, get more surgical. Sweep the area around about 350-500Hz looking for any honkers and remove them individually.

G.

 

[bohunk06]

Thanks for the responses. I do have a AKG large diaphram condenser. I will try the double mic technique. I will also mess with the EQs a little more and try a little less of the lobotomy.

Thanks.

 

[mattr]

I like to have a D112 inside the kick, but quite towards the beater to pick up normal kick sound with a bit more attack, then a subkick (DIY rewired small speaker) on the outside to pick up the lows. I then EQ and compress the main mic to get a consistent attack and ignore the subkick recording, then once I'm happy with the main kick sound I bring up the subkick track to reinforce the lows. If the drummer has been consistent enough then the subkick track doesn't need any processing, maybe just low-pass it to get rid of cymbal bleed and a cut of any stupidly low freqs.

 

[Dogbreath]

I have a 52 as well and it's sounding good.

So, like Glen said, start with the tuning.

Do you have a reso head on front? I tend to have my beater tuned to where it's just a little tighter than "flabby", and then get my tone from the reso. (this is mainly for rock/metal)

I've found that the closer I get towards the beater on the inside, the more click I get. As I pull the mic out, it gets more bottom end in it.

I also remember reading that the 52 already has a somewhat scooped midrange. I could be wrong tho...

Peace mang.............Kel

 

[Dogbreath]

huh...
guess it takes me too long to type.

 

[RAMI]

First, make sure your kick is tuned properly. .

I will try the double mic technique. I will also mess with the EQs

Since you didn't seem to acknowledge what Glen said, I wonder if you read it. Kik drum is one of the easiest things to mic and get a good sound out of with just one mic. You don't need "tricks"...IF it's well tuned to start with.

 

[MessianicDreams]

Since you didn't seem to acknowledge what Glen said, I wonder if you read it. Kik drum is one of the easiest things to mic and get a good sound out of with just one mic. You don't need "tricks"...IF it's well tuned to start with.

I have to agree. Kick drums are A-1 basic.

Here's what I do: Tune the kick properly. I loosen the the skin off totally, so that it crinkles, and then just tighten them so that they're smooth. Most of the time, it sounds fine. Adjust if necessary. Then I setup a dynamic, mostly either a 57 or an M88, right up by the beater, to get loads of click and punch. I then setup another mic, generally a D12, towards the hole of the kick, to get loads of low end punch.

Finally, sometimes, if it needs it or if i'm just feeling energetic, I use a re-wired 12" bass amp speaker cone as a subkick. Although, most of the time I don't use it, it's more effort than its worth to get a decent usable sound.

Then, a touch of EQ, a pinch of compression, end of story, on to the snare.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Re-reading the OP, there's another possibility lurking in the weeds; that the problem isn't with the recording of the kick, it's with the monitoring of it. He can get good high and mid frequencies, but the low down freqs are a problem. Sound familiar?

OP, How's your bass sound?

G.

 

[bohunk06]

Monitoring is definitely an issue. I am using a pair of M-Audio BX5s. So the low end out of them is not great. I usually have to mix what I think sounds pretty good and then listen on my stereo where I have a 12" sub. Its a pain in the ass having to go back and forth. I typically mix it, burn it, listen to it, then go back and repeat the process about 10 times. I just don't have the money for any better/bigger monitors.

I typically use a drum tuner. But I can try the previous method of tuning slightly tighter than "crinkled". Perhaps that will give me better lows. This is all great advice. Thanks for the help.

PS - don't need to move on to the snare. The snare sounds fantastic as does the rest of the kit. Its just this pesky kick.

PPS - I may be expecting more than I can get. I should clarify that the kick, as it is, sounds decent. By no means is it bad. I might be shooting for a more "professional" sound that I can get out of a home studio. I am too much of a perfectionist to settle though.

Thanks again everybody!!

 

[RAMI]

I should clarify that the kick, as it is, sounds decent.....I might be shooting for a more "professional" sound that I can get out of a home studio.

I don't think the Home Studio is the problem. If anything, like you said about how the kik sounds, you shouldn't expect a "professional" sound if the kik only sounds "decent". You should only expect it to sound "decent", no matter where you record it.

 

[Dogbreath]

and as far as burning a cd, listening, burning another etc etc...
imo, that's pretty normal. At least til you learn YOUR monitors in YOUR room. After awhile, you'll know how things are gonna translate and you'll burn less worthless "coasters".

Have ya tried just pullin the 52 back from the beater yet? Since bass waves take longer to develop, it just makes sense, no?

Luck mang......Kel

 

[jmorris]

Since you didn't seem to acknowledge what Glen said, I wonder if you read it. Kik drum is one of the easiest things to mic and get a good sound out of with just one mic. You don't need "tricks"...IF it's well tuned to start with.

I have to disagree a bit. I think kick is one of the hardest sounds to get. Yes, it is easy as far as 1 mic but so many factors like sound of the kick, tunning of front and back head, mic choice and placement. And yes I very much agree a lot of drummers do really hear their kick as I do with the engineers hat on. What I do ( if i can) is loosen up the batter head,stick something like a d112, beta52 inside the drum maybe 6-8" away from batter head off axis. Then a nice LDC outside the fron of the head maybe 2-3 foot. A blanket tunnel is great. The front head I'll tighten up a bit to give some ring, or leave it a bit loose if that is not wanted.

 

[RAMI]

I have to disagree a bit. I think kick is one of the hardest sounds to get. Yes, it is easy as far as 1 mic but so many factors like sound of the kick, tunning of front and back head, mic choice and placement.

Those factors apply to any instrument; Sound of the source, mic choice and placement, etc....It's no different for a kik.

All these other things like placing a second mic 3 feet away, making a tunnel, etc....Can be useful, but if they're NEEDED just to get a good sound, the problem is elsewhere, like in the source sound, or placement of the mic, etc. A kik drum is a mono instrument that should be easy to re-produce with one good mic and a well tuned drum.

 

[rockerdude]

Anybody have some tricks up there sleeve for this? I have been recording my drums for a while. Over the past few years, I have really worked out decent sounding snare, toms, and cymbols. But for some reason, the kick is the one thing I just can't get happy with. I have tried all kinds of tricks. First off, I am using a Shure Beta52 which I run into my FirePod and into Cubase Studio 4. I have even tried running it through my TubePre.

Once I get it in, I have messed with compression, EQ, the works, to get a good sound. I can get good attack and good punch, but not a lot of low end body. So I try scooping out the mids. Which gives it a little better low end body, but loses punch. I know there are probably a thousand ways to solve my problem. Can some one help? I am not opposed to buying other equipment that might help (within reason for price). I just don't know what that equipment might be.

Thanks!!

I use to live in Joliet! I have the sure beta 52 and I take off the front head put the mic about 12" from the beater head and a little off axis.then throw a thick blanket over the kik drum, mic and all.I use a nice api preamp on my kiks then a killer little unit called a distressor.The distressor is a compressor.Or use a opto compressor plugin on the kik.Tuning is very important.I tune my kik low.I also use a yamaha sub kik under that blanket.Reverse the phase. you can check out my studio and recordings at www.sterlingsoundstudios.com or go to recordingreview.com for more help

 

[jmorris]

Rami, hum??? I still have to disagree. Low end instruments in general, as in kick, bass gtr. have always been a bitch to capture properly IMO. I mean an electric gtr, throw up almost any mic, bingo you'll have an acceptable sound,overheads on drums same deal,even vocals to a certain degree. But kick, to get that punch,tone and no mud can be hard. I think it is the hardest thing for the newb to master. I mean mic placement alone is not what mic placement is for a lot of other sources don't you agree? Yes, one mic and off you go but how you use that one mic determines the end result to a much more greater extent than a lot of other sources.At least thats what I think!

 

[RAMI]

Rami, hum??? I still have to disagree. Low end instruments in general, as in kick, bass gtr. have always been a bitch to capture properly IMO. I mean an electric gtr, throw up almost any mic, bingo you'll have an acceptable sound,overheads on drums same deal,even vocals to a certain degree. But kick, to get that punch,tone and no mud can be hard. I think it is the hardest thing for the newb to master. I mean mic placement alone is not what mic placement is for a lot of other sources don't you agree? Yes, one mic and off you go but how you use that one mic determines the end result to a much more greater extent than a lot of other sources.At least thats what I think!

J, we`re both speaking from our own expereince. So, it`s cool if we disagree based on that. But, Ive found that I don't have any more trouble capturing a good kik sound than I do overheads or snare, etc...Unless the kik sounds bad acoustically, but that applies to badly tuned toms or snare also.

I've found it takes more time and effort to get a good guitar or vocal sound. But, I'm a drummer, so that could explain it.

 

[jmorris]

Rami,yeah I hear you. If we are talking about getting a good kick sound from two experienced guy ( you and I ) the yes, I can agree with you. I'm speaking from a newb's point of view really as the OP I think is a newb. So yeah, we're licking off the same spoon!

 

[jmorris]

Rami.. oh, I think you being a drummer and very fine enginner DOES make a hell of a lot of difference in getting a good drum sound. Funny as the last few band I have recorded had very good drums, DW, but I'll tell you they sounded like crap. Just not tunned properly to my ears.