Recording heavy guitar with 1680?

F

Fireside

New member
Hey Monty, your the only one I've heard of that took it back like myself. Everyone else raves about the thing. But what are you using if not digital. I need at least 16 tracks and would love all the editing capabilities of the 1680.
 
I have wanted the 1680 for quite a while now and finally about a
month ago bought one. I experimented for the week that I was
allowed to try it out and still be able to take it back for full refund.
What I was most concerned about was whether or not I could get
"my" guitar sound digitally, so that's what I concentrated on. My old
signal chain was PRS guitar,Voo-Doo Valve pre-amp effects
processor, 488 Mk II cassette based recorder.
With a lot of treaking I have come up with some guitar sounds,
going direct, that I like. Now, when I used the same signal chain,
only going into the 1680, well it just didn't sound "right" to me.
There seemed to be a slight, overriding, UNPLEASANT distortion that
I never heard the old way. And it just was'nt as warm. I don't think I
was digital clipping because I stayed below the suggested levels. I
took it back in a panic! What I had wanted sooo long and had spent
so much money on, just didn't sound good to me. But now I'm very
unhappy and confused. Beings that I really need the extra tracks
and editing capabilities I can't figure out any other way but the
1680. What did I do wrong? Why the unpleasant overriding
distortion. Why the cold sound? Do any of you use pre-amp
processors direct and get the sound you like.
What can I do? Please don't tell me to record the old way, then
import to 1680. If I spend this much on a unit I don't feel I should
have to do that extra step all the time. HEEEEEEELLLLLLP
MEEEEEEEEE!




[This message has been edited by Fireside (edited 03-08-2000).]
 
I agree with you. Check out my reply in the 'computer based recording vs stand alone workstations' which is your topic. Tape sounds better for certain applications, and to get it digitally will just cost more money, if possible at all. You're a victim of the digital hype. I actually bought a VS1680 and returned it the next day.

[This message has been edited by monty (edited 03-08-2000).]
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying one is better than the other. it just seems to depend on what you're going to be doing with your stuff, and what sort of money you want to spend, and whatever other variables may be involved. I like having both analog and digital, and I like the ease of using something like Cakewalk compared to the VS1680 (push this button, push these two buttons, stand on your head and turn the knob with your toe, etc.) But then the VS1680 is very portable and does have 16 tracks and effects, etc. The effects are another story. If you are into heavy guitar, you will need a POD, or mic an amp, because those VS guitar effects aren't that great. I did buy Datasonics VSPro Toolbox which let's you hook either VS to your computer and use it more like Cakewalk, but there is mo' money. Confusing, isn't it?
 
Like monty mentioned, if you are looking for a heavy distorted guitar sound or anything resembling good guitar tone, mic your amp. I have the POD, and it has a nice sound when recorded direct, but it's still not as good as a properly miked tube amp. I think you are selling yourself and that PRS short by not running it through an amp and recording that way. Just my opinion, so if you get a sound you like direct that's all that matters.
 
You guys are too concerned with your sound. Let's face it, this is HOME RECORDING. And I say that not to mean that you should not strive for perfection or for your sound, but that if you are that concerned and are trying to get a recording contract then go to a studio. The VS1680 and VS1880 are amazing pieces of equipment with outstanding design. The headroom issues are not real, only imagined. They are imagined because analog tape allows a much higher level without distorting (clipping) with a reduced bandwidth when compared to digital. So if one is used to tape (as we all are), and then experiences digital, they might come off disappointed. The 24bit analog-to-digital converters in these units grab all of the sound, the full bandwidth of human hearing. What does all this mean? You MUST mix and EQ properly which means you MUST have excellent monitoring gear (get rid of the headphones during mixing. I have achieved guitar sounds that mimic many of todays most recognized players such as S.Vai, E. Van Halen, M.Friedman, or anyone else you can think of). As far as the effects cards go, they are quite nice but not as good as they could be. I personally use them for certain things, but not my guitars (OK, occasionally for the ease of it, but I mostly use studio tube preamps with effects units direct into the recorder). For getting ideas recorded, for demos, or just to save your compositions for posterity, the VS1680/1880 series is a good path to take. If you want to stay with tape, so be it, but to match the VS1680's capabilities you'll need the same amount of bucks that would buy 5 of the Roland units! (And no, I do not work for Roland!)
 
Now what the hell were we thinking? I am so enlightened now that I realize some few of us actually worried about our sound. Let the lame recording commence. Screw the sound....
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Even:
Now what the hell were we thinking? I am so enlightened now that I realize some few of us actually worried about our sound. Let the lame recording commence. Screw the sound....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lame is in the eye of the beholder, sir. All I'm saying is that the 1680 can produce as good a sound as analog tape (and exceed it in some areas), but if one's "sound" doesn't come out like they want on the 1680, it is not the fault of the equipment. Digital is a different domain from tape and requires different techniques to achieve what one wants, and one day of testing will not allow that technique to be learned or developed. All of us care about our sound and strive for it while recording. I think it is a small price to pay for the capabilities inherent in 1680 to 'learn' to use it to get your sound. But, if you wish to stay in the analog world and do not require what the 1680 offers, then keep using tape. (However, if that were the case, then why even buy one for testing? Could it be that the 1680 actually does have something to offer the Home Recoding enthusiast?)
 
As long as this thread is still open why not toss in a few more words. I have a Roland, and I love it. This is the first real piece of recording gear I have ever owned, and the results blow me away. I know alot of you (and me) want this whole recording thing to pretty much do it for itself. We have gizmos that throw voices in tune, machines to sync everything to a nanosecond and so on. Bottom line is though, that we need to work it out. Get a feel for it and see what it can do. Explore. I am a touch amused with folks worrying about the effects not being able to do this or too much of that. But let me ask... you dudes that did not particularly like the distortions, did you by chance try to edit and save the effects? Yes, they can be tweaked and tuned to taste. Most likely everyone just scrolls through the presets and says yay or nay. Explore. The headroom issue by the way... well, it can be argued I suppose. But it can be solved too so we won't go there.
 
I can get a used VS880EX for $1000. Should I do that, or keep saving for a DAW. I want a unit that I can expand with, hence I'm only 16.
 
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