Recording guitar with MR8

  • Thread starter Thread starter cellardweller
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Mekkab, that sounds like a nightmare to me. It takes all of the fun out of recording, plus the sound you play with is a big part of the feel, and how you play. That is why guitarists are always looking for great tone.
 
I'd check it out, but the nowhere radio website is currently "jacked", or "ganked" (both industry terms for "either down for maintenance" or "was that the ISP bill we forgot to pay?" or "HAXX0R3D by Chinese!")
 
I just tried again, but the website isn't responding. I must have gremlins in my computer this morning. I'll try again later.
 
Morindae, nowhereradio seems to be back up again. I just listened to the MR-8 "angry bee distortion" track. Damn that sounds awful to my ears! Hence the saying, "to each his own."
 
my goodness! Nowhere is so slow I couldn't even get to the "Discog" page!
So much for the swarm of angry bees until tonight!
 
thanks to all for the tips... especially bear because I don't have to run out and buy anything (yet)...

pray tell, what is "haxxor3d by chinese"?

I only used the mr8 distortion once, and as I figured before I'd even bought the unit, it is unusable to me... Unless you are going for some twisted retro thing...

As was said, to each their own...

BTW, is there anyone here who subjects themselves to the tedium of drum programming? I am sick to death of it. I'll come up with a song, and be all aflame to record it, but by the time I'm through with the rigor morale of my ZOOM drum mach., all inspiration is long gone...
There's gotta be a better way! Someone told me of one, I believe they called it a 'drum player'? Which the downside of these, it seems all of them share common personality traits (at least in my limited experience) some of these traits include but are not limited to; unreliability, dishonesty, heavy drug abuse, egotistical tendencies(unfounded at that), and that wishy washy fickle-ness I've come to associate with most musicians in this 1/2 horse town of mine.
What's my point? I'm sure I don't really have one... just venting I guess!

I digress, anyone here use drum machines?
 
"Hacked by chinese" was the tag line for the "Code Red" virus... (presumably to throw off anyone wishing to track the virus hackers down) More info here Basically, its a geek speak joke. ANd not a very good one ;)

second of all- I use drum machines because I live in a townhouse with thin walls and have a wife with SUPERHUMAN hearing- despite being in the basement, she can hear me on the third floor- and yes, I'm playing with brushes AND neoprene pads.
(2 years, we move out, I get a sound proofed studio room.)

I have a DR550 (cheap-ass on e-bay) and its cool, I love it.
I do enjoy programming it- its its own little instrument.

FIrst off all, you need to have some pre-recorded beats. soem simple stuff- a 4 on the floor repeater, the same with a 16th note hi-hat, a surf-esque beat (Double snares on the 2 and 4), that "indie beat" (think "Debaser" drum line by the Pixies), and if you can an "Amen" break (speed it up, and you've got jungle!)

SO you've "Sequenced first" ahead of time and can "Drop the facts on dat" whenever (to quote Kool Keith). As long as the drums are passable, they don't have to be great for the first pass.

Second, with the "real time" loop record you can bang out a beat in seconds- quantize into place, and you are ready to go! (note: the DR550 doesn't need quantization. However if I'm programming drums on my cheesy little QY10 sequencer, I'll do it as a loop and then quantize to snap everything into place. Of course, quantize at 32 notes, listen, if not good enough, repeat. If you had to quantize down to 1/4 notes, you might want to rethink this whole "music" and "rhythm" thing ;) )

Now, does your ZOOM have a MIDI in? Cuz if so, just record to click track on your MR8, slave the Zoom to your MR8, and then do the drums later. You don't lose ANYTHING, your guitar part is "in the pocket", and you have the time to thoughtfully program all the drum parts you want. Set the MR8 to MTC and you don't even have to hit start on your drum machine!
 
My drum machine is the Zoom rt-323 I believe. I have not delved into its capabilities nearly as much as I should. It does have midi as far as I recall though...

Being a non drummer, the whole tempo vs. quantize thing eludes me...
 
i wouldn't plug directly into the MR8...disgusting doesnt even describe the sound you get. i would definately mic it. I use the SM-57 at the moment and i am searching for a nice preamp to make it sound good.
 
Originally posted by tomleblanc
I just listened to the MR-8 "angry bee distortion" track. Damn that sounds awful to my ears! Hence the saying, "to each his own."
Click to expand...
Damn, I didn't intend anyone to think I seriously liked it! It has one virtue in my eyes - it doesn't cost anything (once you've bought the MR8). And I'm only demoing songs, not a band. On reflection, I'd like to change my previous description to "swarm of angry bees with toy buzz saws and a particularly stubborn case of catarrh", or maybe simply "catarrh distortion".
 
cellardweller said:
My drum machine is the Zoom rt-323 I believe. I have not delved into its capabilities nearly as much as I should. It does have midi as far as I recall though...
Click to expand...


Sweet little drum machine- I like that you can save onto smart media...


So on Page 87-88 of the ZOOM manual, set the MIDI SYNC- NOT to "INT" (internal); whatever the external setting is.
Plug MIDI cable from MR8 (only has MIDI out) to the MIDI IN on your drum machine. NOTE: you machine will NOT play any beats in this setting unless it gets a MIDI clock input! Under the system menu on the MR8 set the MIDI Sync out to MTC (Midi Time Code).
You will also probably have to mess around with the MTC Frame Rate Setting (25 didn't work for me, I think I used 30df. I have no idea what that means, I just kept trying the settings until it worked!).

Plug the ZOOM into the MR8, hit the record button and the track select (so you get play through), hit play in the MR8 and after the pre-roll (mine is still set to the standard 2 measures (-2. -1. then it goes)) your drum machine should start up on its own*.
(as long as it has a song or patterns set). If you need any more help than that, I'd have to have the 323 sitting infront of me.


cellardweller said:


Being a non drummer, the whole tempo vs. quantize thing eludes me...
Click to expand...

Think of your measure of music as a line of graph paper- its got all these little boxes in a row. For a human, you can play on the beat or off the beat- sometimes playing off the beat to good effect (like a flam, or something). In that case, your "note" is kind of between two squares on graph paper. What quantizing does is snap that note firmly into only ONE of those squares. You *ARE* on the beat.

Okay, did that help? Or did I just confuse you even more?!
 
cellardweller said:


BTW, is there anyone here who subjects themselves to the tedium of drum programming?

Click to expand...

One thing I've always done is program drums in a sequencer on a computer. Being able to visually cut/paste verses and choruses makes getting the basic song form together a relatively quick and painless process.

Also, you can get as detailed as you like in terms of assembling breaks and dynamics.

(Back in the day, I used the DOS version of Sequencer Plus and was able to step enter detailed stuff from the computer keyboard with amazing speed - those tracks still sound like a real drummer.)
 
mrx said:
those tracks still sound like a real drummer.
Click to expand...

AS a point of personal preference, thats one thing I try to steer away from with my drum machine programming. I don't want it to sound like a drummer, because any real drummer can kick my drum machine's butt (I know I can). And since I can't get enough variety in cymbal sounds (even with the "coloring" that the DR550 allows) it isn't gonna fool anyone for long.

Even though both drummers and drum machines hold down the groove I think they should be treated as different instruments.

But whatever- I'm going way off topic now.

Mekka- file under "Zen and the art of drum machine programming" -B
 
advantages?

So on Page 87-88 of the ZOOM manual, set the MIDI SYNC- NOT to "INT" (internal); whatever the external setting is.
Plug MIDI cable from MR8 (only has MIDI out) to the MIDI IN on your drum machine. NOTE: you machine will NOT play any beats in this setting unless it gets a MIDI clock input! Under the system menu on the MR8 set the MIDI Sync out to MTC (Midi Time Code).
You will also probably have to mess around with the MTC Frame Rate Setting (25 didn't work for me, I think I used 30df. I have no idea what that means, I just kept trying the settings until it worked!).

Plug the ZOOM into the MR8, hit the record button and the track select (so you get play through), hit play in the MR8 and after the pre-roll (mine is still set to the standard 2 measures (-2. -1. then it goes)) your drum machine should start up on its own*.
(as long as it has a song or patterns set). If you need any more help than that, I'd have to have the 323 sitting infront of me.
QUOTE]

What advantages will this have as opposed to just recording them through the regular inputs?

You may recall that I am still very new to this, as well as midi and many other forms of illiterate!
 
Re: advantages?

cellardweller said:


What advantages will this have as opposed to just recording them through the regular inputs?

You may recall that I am still very new to this, as well as midi and many other forms of illiterate!
Click to expand...

Okay- you are STILL plugging the stereo (or mono) 1/4" guitar cord from your drum machine into the unbalanced inputs on the MR8- however while the drum machine is giving sound to the MR8, the MR8 is giving a metronome to the drum machine.

Advantages?

You wake up in the middle of hte might and have a great idea for a chord progression! You record it on to your MR8, and you have the click track turned on, so your guitar playing is in time with the the machine.

You go back to sleep.

Wake up later, and you'd like to put a drum beat to it.
If the ZOOM is slaved to the MR8 (by setting the SYNC to external on the ZOOM, and setting the MR8's MIDI sync to MTC, and plugging the midi from the mr8 to the ZOOM's MIDI IN) the drums are automatically in time to what you were playing!

There is no "Hey, thats a great guitar part, but my rythms off" or "my rhythms on, but I can't hit "start" on the drum machine at the right time, some 30 seconds in they are off beat with eachother"- none of that! Its perfectly in time. Now You have guitar and drums that are tight- and you can mix down and send copies to your friends or bandmates.


So this is just one, TINY aspect of MIDI- you are sharing a metronome. However for the non-keyboard player, this is a rpetty damn cool aspect of midi. You don't have to be a good keyboardist- you don't have to be a good drummer (or "live" drum machine player" where you try to press the buttons in time with the guitar part... that NEVER works for me!)
 
mekkab said:
AS a point of personal preference, thats one thing I try to steer away from with my drum machine programming. I don't want it to sound like a drummer, because any real drummer can kick my drum machine's butt (I know I can).
Mekka- file under "Zen and the art of drum machine programming" -B
Click to expand...

Reminds me of the old story about Alex Van Halen putting his digital drum pads inside regular drum shells, so his fans would not know he'd gone that route - or Keith Richards using a Parker Fly in the studio, but not wanting to be seen with one in public.

Kind of ties into the guy who said the only way to record guitar is to put your head next to a speaker to find the sweet spot for the mic.

Might be shocking to find out how some "real" records were actually made...
 
Re: Re: advantages?

mekkab said:

You wake up in the middle of hte might and have a great idea for a chord progression! You record it on to your MR8, and you have the click track turned on, so your guitar playing is in time with the the machine.

You go back to sleep.

Wake up later, and you'd like to put a drum beat to it.
If the ZOOM is slaved to the MR8 (by setting the SYNC to external on the ZOOM, and setting the MR8's MIDI sync to MTC, and plugging the midi from the mr8 to the ZOOM's MIDI IN) the drums are automatically in time to what you were playing!

There is no "Hey, thats a great guitar part, but my rythms off" or "my rhythms on, but I can't hit "start" on the drum machine at the right time, some 30 seconds in they are off beat with eachother"- none of that! Its perfectly in time. Now You have guitar and drums that are tight- and you can mix down and send copies to your friends or bandmates.
Click to expand...

Another advantage of trying to always work the way mekkab suggests is that it's much easier to keep things straight when you eventually move to mixing on a computer.

If you start out with things in sync, you can record an unlimited number of tracks on the MR8 (by copying off tracks as the card fills) and mixing them all on a PC, without having to constantly nudge stuff into alignment.

I'm still blown away when I fire up a huge mix in n-Track and realize it was all tracked on an MR-8...
 
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