Recording Guitar Reverb

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Lt. Bob said:
ummm ..... I must have missed something ...... I don't really remember you saying you hate producers per se ..... haven't you simply said that they shouldn't MAKE artists do what they want if it goes against what the artistrs' aims are?

Also ..... you're NOT a black, tap dancing pretty boy? I have to rethink everything now.
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I'm black from the waist down. Yeah, you know what that means, I have skinny calves. :(

I don't literally hate producers or anyone else. I don't hate the people that play that role. They're just people. I don't hate Butch Vig or Phil Spector or Bob Rock or anyone else. Yes, you are correct in your interpretation of what I'm saying.
 
OK....you don't hate producers as people (I never thought that)....you just hate what they ALL do in recording sessions.

There I'm glad we got that sorted out...:D
 
miroslav said:
OK....you don't hate producers as people (I never thought that)....you just hate what they ALL do in recording sessions.

There I'm glad we got that sorted out...:D
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That part never needed sorting. I've made that pretty damn clear from the beginning, and this isn't the first discussion in which I've expressed by distaste for what is perceived as a producer's role. I could actually go much further, like to answer your questions, but you'd get seriously offended, as probably would many others, and that is not my intention here. I can't believe it took only you this long to figure out. Well, I can actually believe it.
 
Greg_L said:
That part never needed sorting. I've made that pretty damn clear from the beginning, and this isn't the first discussion in which I've expressed by distaste for what is perceived as a producer's role. I could actually go much further, like to answer your questions, but you'd get seriously offended, as probably would many others, and that is not my intention here. I can't believe it took only you this long to figure out. Well, I can actually believe it.
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I was being facetious....
You really think that I thought you hated producer as people...?

Yeah, I know that you've always come down hard on the producer's role in the studio....I've seen it in other threads too, but you never, ever say why....you just hate on them.
I find it funny that you are now worried about "offending" anyone here by saying why you hate on the producer's role. :p


Steenamaroo said:
Imagine Miroslav tried to record Greg......:facepalm:
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:D

I'm sure Greg thinks, that I think, a producer is supposed to tell everyone what to do....but I actually don't think that.
I've worked with people on studio projects enough times, sometimes as just the engineer, and other times also as the producer or co-producer, and sometimes as player/producer/engineer. Most people find that I'm very easy to work with in the studio setting, and I defer to artists' wishes when it's purely an artistic choice that will not have any global negative impact on other players and other tracks...but in almost all cases, the artists would always turn to me when the majority of those decisions needed to be made, because they understood my role and trusted my experience in the studio.
Also, a lot of it has to do with the fact that they know I am also a player/songwriter/artist too...so there's a greater connection there.
I can see where artists might have a concern with some guy who just calls himself a "producer" but doesn't play, doesn't know how to engineer, and is just there to give an outside opinion about what they are doing.

Only point I was making earlier in this thread is that there are times with artists who have little studio experience where the engineer/producer has to guide and steer the sessions so that the end-product is going to be what the green artist expects, and that just letting a studio newb make questionable decisions isn't always about his "art".

Oh...any time Greg wants to come up to NY.....I'll have the mics ready and the preamps warmed up. ;)
 
Lt. Bob said:
stereo micing an amp does not give you stereo ..... just two different mic sounds.
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If two different mic sounds are panned to any width, there will be a difference from right channel to left channel and you will have stereo information. This can be very subtle (two similar mics each close up on two different speakers in the same cab) or very obvious (a close mic on the cab and a room mic 30' away in a huge room). The reason I mention stereo micing is to get two mic signals (however similar or different) from one take. Double-tracking gives a more noticeable separation, but it is on one level the same idea. Two channels of audio that aren't exactly the same. If you panned 16 mics from a drum kit up the center, you'd still not have stereo - just 16 different mic sounds. But pan even one of them out a hair, and your left and right channels will differ and your result will be stereophonic.
 
miroslav said:
I was being facetious....
You really think that I thought you hated producer as people...?

Yeah, I know that you've always come down hard on the producer's role in the studio....I've seen it in other threads too, but you never, ever say why....you just hate on them.
I find it funny that you are now worried about "offending" anyone here by saying why you hate on the producer's role. :p
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Had you asked before you carried on for 19 pages, I probably would have answered you. But I know your motives are never pure with me. It really would definitely offend you and probably many others. I'm not shy about offending people, I happily do it all the time. But it has to be when I want to. On my terms. Like everything else, I call my own shots. I don't need a producer telling me when to offend.


I'm sure Greg thinks, that I think, a producer is supposed to tell everyone what to do....but I actually don't think that.
I've worked with people on studio projects enough times, sometimes as just the engineer, and other times also as the producer or co-producer, and sometimes as player/producer/engineer. Most people find that I'm very easy to work with in the studio setting, and I defer to artists' wishes when it's purely an artistic choice that will not have any global negative impact on other players and other tracks...but in almost all cases, the artists would always turn to me when the majority of those decisions needed to be made, because they understood my role and trusted my experience in the studio.
Also, a lot of it has to do with the fact that they know I am also a player/songwriter/artist too...so there's a greater connection there.
I can see where artists might have a concern with some guy who just calls himself a "producer" but doesn't play, doesn't know how to engineer, and is just there to give an outside opinion about what they are doing.

Only point I was making earlier in this thread is that there are times with artists who have little studio experience where the engineer/producer has to guide and steer the sessions so that the end-product is going to be what the green artist expects, and that just letting a studio newb make questionable decisions isn't always about his "art".
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Lol. I KNEW this was only about you. :laughings:
 
BrentDomann said:
If two different mic sounds are panned to any width, there will be a difference from right channel to left channel and you will have stereo information. This can be very subtle (two similar mics each close up on two different speakers in the same cab) or very obvious (a close mic on the cab and a room mic 30' away in a huge room). The reason I mention stereo micing is to get two mic signals (however similar or different) from one take. Double-tracking gives a more noticeable separation, but it is on one level the same idea. Two channels of audio that aren't exactly the same. If you panned 16 mics from a drum kit up the center, you'd still not have stereo - just 16 different mic sounds. But pan even one of them out a hair, and your left and right channels will differ and your result will be stereophonic.
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Yes...two mics used in a stereo configuration on a guitar amp will yield a stereo image.
What isn't a stereo image (that a lot of players mistake) is when you use a 212 amp or you use a pair of 112 cabs.
That's not stereo.
True stereo is all about using a stereo mic technique to capture the source. MOst sorces are always mono, but the stereo mics capture the srouce, plus the room and the left/right differences, and that's where the stereo image comes from.

I've been doing that lately on some recordings, setting up a Blumlein Pair and going to two tracks for a stereo image.
You can control the panning either by moving the mic pair during tracking, which requires careful pre-production planning so you know where everything will end up in the mix...or you can pan the source later on by simply changing the level relationship of the two tracks in the mix.
I track to tape, so this technique eats up a lot of tracks quickly, but I just finished a session on a song where I used stereo mics on most of the instruments. The only thing I tracked mono was the bass guitar, and the lead vocal will be done in mono....everything else was recorded in stereo, especially the guitars, rhythm tracks and lead.
 
Greg_L said:
Had you asked before you carried on for 19 pages....


Lol. I KNEW this was only about you. :laughings:
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Actually...it's been all about you and your hatred for the producer's role, but you never want to say why.
You are the one carrying on about that. I only asked the question in the last few post.

Let's talk about Hendrix, the Beatles and Pink Floyd.....maybe you can say why you hate them so much. ;)

It's OK...you don't have to explain. I know you like to toss out very extreme comments in threads just to get a little fire going....
 
I have said why. I guess you still don't get it. You're so hung up on yourself you can't see the forest for the trees. Jeez.....:facepalm:

Come on dude, don't twist it around. You don't have to consult the miro comeback book and start accusing me of things. You confirmed an assumption I've made about you. Don't be mad about it. It's cool bromigo. :) :thumbs up:
 
Steenamaroo said:
I don't see the OPs situation as being any different to when a guitarist has the gain so high that his amp just records like fizz.
We know this happens; Do we just sit smugly and quietly knowing better?
I have no qualms about (in a nice way) saying "I'm turning down the gain because I know it's not going sound good like this".
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Great comparison, thanks!
 
miroslav said:
To go back to the OP...I would track both with and without reverb, and then compare and decide, but depending on the production goals, just going with reverb out of the amp may have more implication than the newb artist is aware of...and that's where the experienced producer/engineer has a job, a duty, to step in and make decisions and provide some options to the artist.
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That is how I feel too
 
wtfuhz said:
At the end of the day, good teamwork between the artist and the recording team will yield great results. On the other hand, should one of the two try to take too much into their own hands, it could very easily smear a big shit stain right across the recording. Take into account what the artist wants, do your best to make that appear on the recording the best way it can sound. That may involve altering the current settings on his effects. That's all I'm saying, Greg :thumbs up:
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Indeed!
 
miroslav said:
You make assumptions...then you toss out extreme statetment to stir it up.
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No dude, I made an assumption about you specifically, all to myself. I didn't post it. I didn't hit you with it. I didn't throw it in your face. I didn't make any claims or personal attacks. It was all on the up-and-up and we were just having a difference of opinion. My comments about producers are real. But then it happened. Now I know why you defend them the way you do. And it's pretty freaking sad.

That explains the producer thing too....
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Yup, you explained it all right.

Now, consult your manual and find the appropriate response. It's going to be something along the lines of you just repeating what I said back at me.
 
Greg mentioned slipperman a few pages back on the topic of that whole "turn down the gain" thing, but IIRC slipperman was one who actually said to leave the fucking thing alone. Let the dumbass dial in his ridiculous tone and then do what you have to do to get it to translate.

There is a place for a more traditional producer. Frankly, somebody's got to do it or nothing will get anyfuckingwhere. Whether it's the artist himself or somebody he has chosen to trust, or been forced to work with by some record company, it has to happen. Somebody, somewhere along the line needs to take some vaguely objective perspective and make sure that the parts are strong, the arrangement is sound, and the overall sound comes together.

I think it is perfectly okay for an artist to go to somebody with experience and say "This is what I'm shooting for, but I don't know quite how to get there," or "We're almost there, but there seems to be something missing," or similar. I actually kind of enjoy those gigs. Gives me a chance to flex some muscles I might not use in my own work.

OTOH, if a buddy brings a six-pack and a guitar by to knock out some stuff he's been working on, I'll just put up some mics and let him do all the hard work. Maybe I'll try some fun techniques for my own amusement. Maybe afterward I'll mess with things, even take it to absurd places it wasn't intended to go, but the most input I'll give (in this very limited, casual setting) is maybe to tune the guitar between takes. I generally don't even comment on performance. The artist knows where and how he fucked up. If he thinks it's bad enough to fix, we run another take.

If a label came to me and asked me to mold some "up and coming" group into the "next big thing", to compromise the intention of the band's vision for the sake of money or fame... Well, that ain't gonna happen anyway.
 
ashcat_lt said:
The fact is that we're all kinda just talking generalities and debating philosophy, but not really helping the OP any. Maybe that's why he hasn't come back?
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I have checked, but I live in Sweden so last time I checked the post had 4 replies :)

ashcat_lt said:
Is there a band involved, or is it solo guitar? Is anybody getting paid, or expecting to get paid? Is this intended for commercial release, a demo to shop around (for "deals" or gigs), or just a vanity project? Exactly what is the relationship between the OP and the "guy"? Are we just buddies fucking around? Did he get your name off your craigslist posting? Has he come asking you to help him refine and/or define his sound, or is he just there because you have better gear and/or space?
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We are just recording guitar, the other insruments I play.
No one is getting payed, he is my friend and he´s recording a few guitar tracks for me and I some drum tracks for him.
It´s intended for a commercial release, but we don´t expect making any money off it.
I have a home studio and more experience recording and mixing than him. His =none. Mine= a little bit over none

ashcat_lt said:
All of the above-listed situations are perfectly normal and valid, and it is by no means an exhaustive list, but each demands a slightly different set of skills and/or attitude from the OP. All of this should have been ironed out in "pre-production" talks. Before the time/space was "booked" there should have been some discussion on the intentions of the project, and the various expectations that each party had of the other.
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I have recorded him earlier and then I wasn´t happy with the result. And I AM taking this in post-production, that is why I consult with you here! :)

ashcat_lt said:
Unless he's a real prick there's no way he can stick that on you.
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Haha. I agree

ashcat_lt said:
Or you could insist that he change his preferred way of working and present him with something of which you can be proud, and he'll cringe and bristle every time he hears it. Any time he plays it for a friend or family member he'll say "It's not exactly what I wanted, but the engineer just wouldn't listen to me."
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I think we are going to record and try different oprions to see what´s best

And thank you! Because I am quite, if not very, new on this forum
 
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