Recording Electric Guitar - Direct In

1

12Kevin

Practical Cat
After 35 years of playing strictly acoustic axes, now I've got an electric guitar. To record in my situation, I need to go direct to my mixer, thence into a Delta 66. There must be some PC-based guitar effects and amp modeling programs/plugins etc. I know there are several included with my Sonar 4 Producer edition. The issue is hearing the effects in real-time while laying tracks.

I do mainly clean jazz stuff, so the there's no crunchy guitar sounds to hide the noise of a cheap pedal. I tried that with my RP50.

With my setup I've only been able to get my latency down to 11ms. So using a VST and listening with the tape-style monitoring turned on doesn't quite do the job. Though the unintended delay sounds cool.

Am I missing something obvious? My friends say I've graduated from dufus to almost OK on the new guitar. But I'm still murky about recording direct with it.
Thanks for any ideas at all!
Kev
 
In general, recording direct is not that great of an option for an electric guitar. Sometimes it is more convenient, but it never sounds as good. It can be effective when recording guitar either as an effects sound or to add layering to other tracks that were recorded with mics.

What you use direct is going to depend on your budget and your goals. It always helps to have a good DI/pre like the Brick or the Ditto, although for that kind of money you could be recording an amp.

Finding a used POD could be a good choice. They have amp simulations, effects, etc. Distortion sounds on them are not as good sounding as most even budget amps, but with some tweaking you can come up with some decent sounds.

Plugin-wise, I think that the Native Instruments Guitar Rig is the best out there right now, although it is expensive. I also like the Sansamp rack unit and the plugin.

The most simple and inexpensive way might be to just get a POD or the Behringer version of it.
 
Jburn34 said:
In general, recording direct is not that great of an option for an electric guitar. Sometimes it is more convenient, but it never sounds as good. It can be effective when recording guitar either as an effects sound or to add layering to other tracks that were recorded with mics.
...
The most simple and inexpensive way might be to just get a POD or the Behringer version of it.
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Thanks much. For now all I need is passable sounds for quick demos.

Hey, it just occurred to me, I could use the built in Boss GT-6 effects in my handy-dandy BR1600 recorder. Well, duh.

Now, would you be willing to suggest a basic amp for fat jazz sounds for studio miking?
Pushing my luck,
Kev
 
Kev,

A real sleeper amp is the Peavey classic 30 and classic 20. You should play one somehwhere...they are pretty sweet. It won't be super loud but that is good for recording anyway.
 
Jburn34 said:
Kev,

A real sleeper amp is the Peavey classic 30 and classic 20. You should play one somehwhere...they are pretty sweet. It won't be super loud but that is good for recording anyway.
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I'll second the Classic 30, especially for jazz sounds. I've switched amps primarily because the C30 doesn't handle higher-gain distortion the way I like it, but oh do I miss the clean and slightly dirty tones it had.

If you go with the Classic 30, I would suggest re-tubing it as soon as you can reasonably afford to do so. C30's have a history of responding very well to JJ Tesla tubes (www.eurotubes.com is an excellent source for them). A full re-tube with JJ's will run somewhere in the area of $50.

The reason for the re-tube is the stock Chinese or Sovtek tubes that come with the C30 have a reputation for making the amp sound harsh and nasal. Some nice low or mid gain JJ tubes completely solve that problem, and give it a nice sparkling clean sound.
 
Peavey classic 30 ... It won't be super loud but that is good for recording anyway.
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It is good for recording, but make no mistake, the Peavey Classic 30 is one loud frigging amp. I have never used mine above 3 in a practical situation (and that was at a gig with two drummers and another guitarist with a Marshall half stack). The Classic 30 puts out a ton of volume.

I will second the recommendation of Guitar Rig, but only if you have another preamp to run through it. Guitar Rig easily has the worst amp simulations I have ever heard; however, it also has far and away the best caninet and microphone models in the business. I keep wishing they would release a cabs/mics only version for $200 or so, I would be in.
 
Thanks again, Jeremy. Getting good feedback on the Classic 30. Is the 20 still in production?
Thanks, Sile. If I bite on the 30, might as well do the tubes too. Now to concoct my spousal defence of another tool which she will insist on calling a toy. What's wrong with women?
Thanks, Apl. I'll be trying out the plug-ins in a minute.
 
charger said:
It is good for recording, but make no mistake, the Peavey Classic 30 is one loud frigging amp. I have never used mine above 3 in a practical situation (and that was at a gig with two drummers and another guitarist with a Marshall half stack). The Classic 30 puts out a ton of volume.
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Ain't that the truth! I've had people laugh at me for bringing a 30 watt 1x12 combo to a gig....they weren't laughing for long :D. I also got Peavey's 112E matching extention cabinet for it and loaded both the combo and the extension with real, made-in-England Celestion Greenbacks (not the newer made-in-China ones). Obviously left the combo open-back, but closed up the extension, and now I get the best of both worlds. The clear projection of the combo, and the tight but thundering bass of the cab. It didn't really get any louder (because 30 watts is 30 watts, regardless of the speaker count), but the extra speaker helped it cut through the mix a lot better.
 
I don't know if the Classic 20 is still in production or not. I see them on ebay every now and then though. If you can afford it I would just go with the Classic 30. Your wife wouldn't approve of either of them anyway!
 
apl said:
http://www.simulanalog.org/ has a free set of VST plugins for guitars recorded direct and dry.
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Hey, until I spring for real gear, this stuff works great! Thanks a million.

As an old-timer home-recordist who marveled at the mechanical age of Tascam and Otari, can't help the amazement for what's out there for free, or for peanuts.

By the way, this curiosity doesn't deserve a thread, but 5 years years ago a friend from thost ancient days needed to recover tracks from 20 year-old half inch 8-track master tapes. But the tape emulsion just came off and clogged the heads and transport mechs instantly. We heard somewhere that some sort of heating process would stabilize the tape. So we guessed at a temp and cooked the reels in his oven. Damn, it worked!
 
12Kevin said:
So we guessed at a temp and cooked the reels in his oven. Damn, it worked!
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Those old farts in the Analog Only forum are always talkin' 'bout sticky shed and bakin' tapes.
 
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