Recording drums with one mic

[rayc]

Vspaceboy,
That was a fabulous near Freudian slip you made: "Your brain is trained enough to help you hear things more legibly." My brain snapped straight to...
And write things more audibly...
And chew things more masturbatingly...
And tug things more masticatingly...
And read things more writably...
And see things more touchingly...
And taste things more olfactorialy (well there is a componenet of that to be honest)...
etc.

I don't mean to be mean but had to record what dribbled from my silly mind anyway.
Cheers
ray

 

[tremoloking]

lord...enough already! do you know how many mikes were used on ringo's kit in the early days of the beatles? that's right!

gene vincent's classic recordings that STILL hold up some sixty years later were done with ONE mic hanging from the ceiling!

what is this obsession with miking every little doodah on a drumkit? now THAT sounds like shit to me!

just about a year ago i did a recording session in my house in new orleans . i used an Oktava LDC, set about two feet in front of the drumkit, at about chest height for the drummer. it sounds GREAT. if i wanted more kick for a song, i'd aim the mike towards the floor.


it obviously depends on the drumkit, the room, the mic AND the drummer. place the drumkit in a good sounding spot in the room. put the kit on a wooden drumriser if you can. put it in a corner. experiment with different mics and different positions. you'll be FINE.

do our ears hear EVERY single drum as a separate whole? of course not. we hear the whole kit. all the overtones of the different drums interacting, plus the way their sounds reflect off walls, ceiling and floor.

so stop belly aching, all of you. less is more. use your ears and your head and your taste. they're WAY more important than your equipment.

 

[VSpaceBoy]

This sort of supports using a simple stereo pair, according to "The Recording Studio Handbook" (John Woram). Check out the chapter called "Microphone Technique": A stero pair (I know we're not really talking about a stereo pair up to now) tends to hear the spacial relationships between sections of the ensemble. Using lots of mics tends to necessitate re-creating the original (or desired) space (now "lost information") during mixdown.

I only put this forward to challenge your suggestion (yes?) that more mics on a drum kit is essentially right-thinking. I've read the chapter, and it's very sensible logic.

On the other hand... a band I recorded with last summer used mics all over the place, in a pretty open (read: bleeding!)situation, and the guy who did the mix afterward was impressed with the nice job of capturing the signal into the Fostex HD recorder they were using. So I can't say you're wrong, and wouldn't. It either works or it doesn't!

I just think that one mic, well-placed, just might do a nice job of getting the kit onto disc. Why not just do it and find out?

The point is though, for a drum kit you must create the space. Unless the music created is being played back on a mono system, its going to be tough to get the drums to sound balanced with the rest of a stereo track.

Its possible that he could get it sounding fairly balanced on its own, but I would be willing to put in the time that was suggested earlier in recording each drum one by one if I was going to mix it in with a song.

 

[sloom]

I think it's cool that you can percieve such detail in what you hear, so as to be able to tell something of the nature of the environment you're in,... the distance from- and dynamic of- the source signal. You might be able to discern characteristics of the materials used to make the sound, etc. That's a lot of information to pull together, and the ear does it.

I guess that something is lost to the microphone that the human ear might understand in a three-dimensinal way... so we use more mics to get more information. But the fact that it's a recording and not a live experience is always going to be an element of recorded music. Most of all, I just want to hear a great performance of what I'm listening to.

 

[tremoloking]

if anything, and if you have the mics and the tracks, set up a stereo pair in a strategic spot in the room. it'll add more room sound and even more air to the drums. try it, you'll be amazed.

 

[VSpaceBoy]

Vspaceboy,
That was a fabulous near Freudian slip you made: "Your brain is trained enough to help you hear things more legibly." My brain snapped straight to...
And write things more audibly...
And chew things more masturbatingly...
And tug things more masticatingly...
And read things more writably...
And see things more touchingly...
And taste things more olfactorialy (well there is a componenet of that to be honest)...
etc.

I don't mean to be mean but had to record what dribbled from my silly mind anyway.
Cheers
ray

lol.. whatever floats yer bike.

 

[VSpaceBoy]

lord...enough already! do you know how many mikes were used on ringo's kit in the early days of the beatles? that's right!

gene vincent's classic recordings that STILL hold up some sixty years later were done with ONE mic hanging from the ceiling!

what is this obsession with miking every little doodah on a drumkit? now THAT sounds like shit to me!

just about a year ago i did a recording session in my house in new orleans . i used an Oktava LDC, set about two feet in front of the drumkit, at about chest height for the drummer. it sounds GREAT. if i wanted more kick for a song, i'd aim the mike towards the floor.


it obviously depends on the drumkit, the room, the mic AND the drummer. place the drumkit in a good sounding spot in the room. put the kit on a wooden drumriser if you can. put it in a corner. experiment with different mics and different positions. you'll be FINE.

do our ears hear EVERY single drum as a separate whole? of course not. we hear the whole kit. all the overtones of the different drums interacting, plus the way their sounds reflect off walls, ceiling and floor.

so stop belly aching, all of you. less is more. use your ears and your head and your taste. they're WAY more important than your equipment.

I agree to an extent, but we listen to the playback of the drumset on a stereo setup. We could argue all day long that a song is still a song in mono, but I'd pick a stereo setup any day of the week.

 

[VSpaceBoy]

if anything, and if you have the mics and the tracks, set up a stereo pair in a strategic spot in the room. it'll add more room sound and even more air to the drums. try it, you'll be amazed.

I do agree with that, but I'd still want a kick mic and snare.

 

[tremoloking]

I agree to an extent, but we listen to the playback of the drumset on a stereo setup. We could argue all day long that a song is still a song in mono, but I'd pick a stereo setup any day of the week.

well...sure...but he said he only has one mic. the stereo image of drums is kind of overrated IMO. some mixes have drums panned all over the stereo image and it just siunds kind of silly.
of course you could use a narrower stereo image, but in my experience that kind of gets lost in the mix anyway what with everything else going on, and at that point you might as well save yourself the trouble and go with a mono drum track.

a stereo pair miking the room on the other hand IMO creates a much more realistic picture, cos you get the drums AND the reflections, and everything else, all in stereo. but of course in that scenario everything depends on the room.

 

[sloom]

I listened to Revolver today. It is not an accurate rendering of what you hear in a room, but it's a great record- because of the songs, the playing, and other production thingies. Stereo or not, it's ultimately the material and the performance that gets the attention.

We're back to the kid having a single mic.

 

[ofajen]

I'd put it a couple feet in front of the kit. Then toy around with vertical placement until you get a sound you like. If you think you're tight enough with your playing, then you can record the part several times with the mic in the various positions and it might sound better. Unfortunately, you'd have to know how to play the part EXACTLY the same several times.

I've done a fair amount of drum recording with one mike overhead and sometimes adding one out front of the kick (or in the kick). That can give a good solid mono tone. The weakness I've typically found with just the one out front mike is that while you are getting a good solid tone off the bass head, all the other drums (except for bass mounted riding toms) are indirect and the snare is not good. The cymbals can be OK, but the floor tom is not good. Too much snare rattle relative to the meat of the snare tone, and generally, even with the Studio Traps helping out, too little direct tone from the snare and other drums and too much room tone. Of course, you could make a decent enough record with that sound, but my preference has usually been for the overhead mike sound if I'm only using one. And do bear in mind that this is generally being done with full-range, true omni mikes.

If the OP could just borrow a second mike, he could at least have one overhead and one out front or in the kick. Or if you can live with a mushy kick sound, you could even do two overheads a la Recorderman or some other similar method. Good luck!

Cheers,

Otto

 

[TyphoidHippo]

Dude, this is just insane... and no offense!! But you're recording music. When you go hear a live band, you are hearing the drums, etc., and you are hearing the room. The room is important- it's half of what you hear- and you only have one set of ears- not "close ears", and "ambient ears", etc. No, you only have the ones attatched to your head, and they are more than likely far away from the drums. The drums have had extensive experience in that room before the sound has reached your (only one) set of ears. Therefore, the room is exercising a great deal of influence- more than you may realize- on what you are hearing. Let's not be unmindful of where we are- we are in a physical space.

Put the mic where it sounds best, and record the track. You are done.

The guy only has one mic.

Heh, no offense taken at all! I think your views are fascinating because I can't really wrap my head around them....I do whatever it takes to make drums sound as good as commercially released albums - and I would venture the guess that you may even think that modern commercial drums are too fake sounding, but perhaps I'm wrong?

To each his own, I guess... I don't know your background (maybe share a bit?) but I work in a small studio and run sound for a few local venues for a living, and have been doing so for about three years now - all day, every day. So, even if I shared the same views as you, it wouldn't change the fact that I have never once had anybody prefer a natural drum sound over a surreal "amazing, better than perfect" freakin gigantonormous drum sound which is fairly easily attained (provided you have enough mics, I guess...) and consistently attainable through sound replacement of all actual drums - "Why try and reinvent the wheel?" is the way I usually think of it, personally - the people who made Purrfect Drums, and Addictive Drums, and Steven Slate drums, and the BlueJay samples and undoubtedly many others that I haven't even tried have already gone through all the trouble to get that "perfect, surreal sound" from the best sounding drums in the world and now they sell their samples in easy to use, drag and drop kinda formats....so why the hell wouldn't I use them? - and then recording real cymbal overdubs which serve to make the drums sound as if they were actually played by a real person, and not by drumagog routing midi through addictive drums, lol.

Then again, most, -not all-, but definitely most of the artists I work with are pretty young, as am I (23) - so I guess all us youngsters may just be out of touch with all the natural/purist stuff, and that on the odd occasions where I get to work with older artists they just luckily have had similar tastes as I do - Something I do know, however, is that (all ages aside) to be competitive I consistently have to deliver the aforementioned surreal and gigantic drum sound, or else bands will just take their business to another studio who can get that sound, and venues will stop hiring me to run sound...and then I'll have to go work at some job that I don't love (like my current ones) and that would suck...

Heh, I don't know what I'd say to somebody who told me I made their drums sound too good and it's no longer natural sounding or "true to the room" or whatever....lol. Probably tell them to take a hike down to a "What you play and what you play it on is exactly what you get - even if your drums suck and so do you" lazy ass kinda studio, because I can't have my name on anything that sounds like that, heh...

Anyway - Merry Christmas!

 

[CoolCat]

So, I'm in a bit of a predicament...
I am trying to record my drums with ONE vocal mic, because it's all I have on hand these days (don't ask why...long story). It will go directly into my tascam dp-01fx multitracker, and it will inevitably sound like shit. Does anyone have any tips as to how I can make the drums sound decent with the equipment I have on hand? There are some pretty decent on board effects on the tascam, but I'm wondering if there are any other suggestions that someone could give me.

mic placement seems to be your first choice.

but then maybe you can add some tom overdubs for some spread if you like.

and er...another overdub track for some cymbals...

it'd take some work. Hopefully your ONE MIC is a good one?

 

[RAMI]

I have a bigger fish to fry.

How do I mic one drum with 6 mics????



EDIT: I just had 2 coffees and now realize that wasn't even funny.

 

[sloom]

Heh, no offense taken at all! I think your views are fascinating because I can't really wrap my head around them....I do whatever it takes to make drums sound as good as commercially released albums - and I would venture the guess that you may even think that modern commercial drums are too fake sounding, but perhaps I'm wrong?

To each his own, I guess... I don't know your background (maybe share a bit?)

Okay, here you go- I'll try to be brief: I'm a mere 30-year bass player, and I do carpentry for a living (last 14 years or so. I'm 46, have two kids, and I play music because I feel that I have to- it keeps me more or less in the realm of sanity).

My good friend and best-ever drummer died 6 years ago, and he was starting a studio (Mac / ProTools). After he died his sister sent some of us a small chunk of change to do a music project. With my new $1,000 I got a pc built (cheep) and an interface, with the purpose of transferring some of our jams to CD (from tape) and passing 'em out to his friends. It was a hard time and almost destroyed my marriage, as I got a little obsessed with it all. I was trying to redeem something, in a deep grief for my good friend and brother, etc. My wife was grieving hard too- it was pretty terrible.

So anyway, I have this ethic see, and it's very old-school. Martin would have been more on your page, honestly, but I have some fundamental trouble with modern pop music and the things that make it. I'll bore you, so I'll leave it at that! But having spent time with a lot of old jazz, Motown and Rock recordings I do see much of the modern technique as excessive. It's over-the-top- a lot- and I don't want to be always battered with 'impact' and sensational volume levels. Also I don't think it's healthy to hear a CD player clipping, which is something that might happen as a result of too much hard-limiting- it's noise and represents disorder to me.

As I said, when I go see a band, I only have one set of ears. They are very good ears though, in that they interpret a lot of complex information- room, kind of drum, player's dynamic... I surmise this is the reason for all the mics here and there... I do get it. I just don't think that often the results are what they should be. I prefer live recordings whenever possible, I think bleed is good, and I don't want it too tailored. I want the recording to represent life in that moment, not money.

I understand that in some of the old dark-ages recordings of jazz bands (Big Band referenced here- I forget who!) the captured signal was so detailed that after the records were remastered, you could hear activity going on in the street below between takes. I think the point was that they were using very good mics- better than are generally produced by today's standards. They just used one mic; two would have been fun, but you get me.

Your point of view is appreciated, and I suppose mine is not by some! That's allright, I'm no pro and won't try to fool myself- I'm just trying to have a good time, learn something here.

Peace, have a good holiday!

 

[TyphoidHippo]

I want the recording to represent life in that moment, not money.

That's understandable, respectable, and pretty damn cool if I say so myself. I was originally a musician myself (also a bassist). I even spent a few years on the road with the last band I was in...and I distinctly remember being passionate and emotional about music, but somewhere along the way that has just all gotten lost for me...

Then again, I'm sure it will come back sooner or later - since the downfall of my passion for music as an artform coincided with the harsh reality of having to do whatever it takes to pay the bills if I want to work with music for a living. I'm sure as I get more settled in in life, I will get into the art and expression and all the cool stuff you talk about again.

Your point of view is appreciated, and I suppose mine is not by some!

Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but it's certainly appreciated by me. I love to hear how more experienced people view things - it's the only way to gain insight and all that stuff. "See things through eyes that have seen many more things than yourself"...or something like that, heh. Thanks for sharing! I'm off to my parents house, which is about 300 miles away, but my mom's Christmas ham is worth every minute of the drive, lol.

 

[TerraMortim]

lord...enough already! do you know how many mikes were used on ringo's kit in the early days of the beatles? that's right!

gene vincent's classic recordings that STILL hold up some sixty years later were done with ONE mic hanging from the ceiling!

what is this obsession with miking every little doodah on a drumkit? now THAT sounds like shit to me!

just about a year ago i did a recording session in my house in new orleans . i used an Oktava LDC, set about two feet in front of the drumkit, at about chest height for the drummer. it sounds GREAT. if i wanted more kick for a song, i'd aim the mike towards the floor.


it obviously depends on the drumkit, the room, the mic AND the drummer. place the drumkit in a good sounding spot in the room. put the kit on a wooden drumriser if you can. put it in a corner. experiment with different mics and different positions. you'll be FINE.

do our ears hear EVERY single drum as a separate whole? of course not. we hear the whole kit. all the overtones of the different drums interacting, plus the way their sounds reflect off walls, ceiling and floor.

so stop belly aching, all of you. less is more. use your ears and your head and your taste. they're WAY more important than your equipment.

Yes and old recordings of the beatles, and quite a lot of that era, have a very shit drum sound. (sounding something like someone slamming their forehead into garbage can lids and kicking cardboard boxes...while pounding steak knives into baking pans....what's it with this blind devotion to the beatles anyway? They weren't THAT great... just lucky enough to make it as big as they did. Just because it's a beatles recording doesn't make it good... some of their stuff sounded good, some sounded horrible.

Regardless of how our ears hear, it does't apply to mixing music... you could use that way of thinking and say fuck, I only have two ears...set up two mics in the room and record with just that... oh... btw...unless you've suffered some ammount of hearing loss in one ear, or were born with a medical problem...we have two ears...so how would one mic emulate two ears? I suggested two mics... which is very possible to get a decent drum sound in the right room with the right drums, tuned the right way. . . Unless you want a very tight sound, then close micing is your friend.

I doubt if he has only one mic to work with that he has an amazing sounding room...so..... in that case the less is more is actually... less is less... because all it will sound like is a demo recording of someone playing drums in a garage... In fact, the worse the room is, the more close micing you'll need if you want it to sound good.

 

[TerraMortim]

a stereo pair miking the room on the other hand IMO creates a much more realistic picture, cos you get the drums AND the reflections, and everything else, all in stereo. but of course in that scenario everything depends on the room.

That's what I usually do... don't much like overheads... just a tiny bit hipassed to hell for some sizzle... but I do 90% room mics... a tiny bit of kick tiny bit of snare and depending on the song sometimes mic the toms, but sometimes just use the room mics. It's not always about the "stereo image" of the drums so much... the reflections being in stereo can help to thicken things out... there's no better sound to my ears than a spaced pair in a good room just picking up the natural sound... yum.

 

[sloom]

...I distinctly remember being passionate and emotional about music, but somewhere along the way that has just all gotten lost for me... Then again, I'm sure it will come back sooner or later...

It will- it's in you, and you can't stop it from re-surfacing! It's imporant to make a living- this world's rules press upon us and compromise us. But for me, it recently became important to turn and use my life to do something I really want to do, and to not compromise any more of it than I really need to. So I quit all my working bands- no more gigging for bread. I'd rather work at some other trip (banging nails), and save up that good musical energy for something I can be really enthusiastic about!

You've been learning a lot of useful stuff, and it will probably amount to a nice contribution to your own creative work. Just be sure that when that still, small voice of urgency speaks up, you're able to hear it!

Good talking with you, I appreciate the open attitude. Now git outta here!

 

[tremoloking]

Yes and old recordings of the beatles, and quite a lot of that era, have a very shit drum sound. (sounding something like someone slamming their forehead into garbage can lids and kicking cardboard boxes...while pounding steak knives into baking pans....what's it with this blind devotion to the beatles anyway? They weren't THAT great... just lucky enough to make it as big as they did. Just because it's a beatles recording doesn't make it good... some of their stuff sounded good, some sounded horrible.

needless to say, i disagree. there's no arguing about taste,but pop and rock wouldn't be the same without the beatles.
and they're not the only ones to use that recording method, it was standard for decades. you say it sucks...i say it sounds great.

Regardless of how our ears hear, it does't apply to mixing music... you could use that way of thinking and say fuck, I only have two ears...set up two mics in the room and record with just that...

which i've done and has been done withsome pretty cool results.

oh... btw...unless you've suffered some ammount of hearing loss in one ear, or were born with a medical problem...we have two ears...so how would one mic emulate two ears?

it wouldn't but that's not the point. the drums are only part of the mix. that's why i suggested a stereo pair also.

I suggested two mics... which is very possible to get a decent drum sound in the right room with the right drums, tuned the right way. . . Unless you want a very tight sound, then close micing is your friend.

sure!

I doubt if he has only one mic to work with that he has an amazing sounding room...so..... in that case the less is more is actually... less is less... because all it will sound like is a demo recording of someone playing drums in a garage... In fact, the worse the room is, the more close micing you'll need if you want it to sound good.

this is a good point and i did think about that also. but the thing is, with one mic you'll never get a good sound by close miking. where would you put the mic? you have no choice but to use ut as an overall mic because you only have one.

anyway, sorry, didn't mean to come off that strongly, i just never understood why it's necessary to close mike every part of a drumkit.