Recording distorted guitars

sergi0arias

sergi0arias

New member
Hi everyone, i am new in this forum and here's my deal:
I've been trying to record some good heavy distortions in my "home studio", so let me explain my whole setup:

Ibanez Jem 555 BK > Pod X3 Live > Crate GT65 Guitar Amp > Behringer XM1800S Dynamic Cardiod > Delta 1010LT > PC with Ableton Live
As for monitoring I use a pair of Alessis M1520

I've been trying some JCM900 sound with my Pod X3, and when I hear the distortion coming out from the amp it sounds good, but I don't think the brightness of the sound is being captured, it sounds more crunchy and less smooth, i try to fix it with EQ but I don't seem to get it the way it sounds, so maybe I am miking the amp the wrong way (i've been trying with diferent positions and distances), maybe the mik isnt good enough (i hear the SM 57 is one of the favorites), maybe i need a better sound (better instrument, better guitar), maybe I need a better and more carefull listening. As for this, I want to make the best I can out of the equipment I have.
I'm not very experienced with recording and every tip you can give me can be useful so feel free to post some good info and tutorials, or other threads, as this may have already been covered.

Thanks!!!
 
Have you tried going direct with the pod?

Anyway, if you place the mic in the center of the speaker, it will pick up a brighter sound. The more towards the edge you place it, the darker it becomes.

I've never used that mic, so I don't know if that's the problem. But no matter which mic you use, the sound you get through the mic will never be the sound you hear in the room while you are playing.
 
Farview said:
Anyway, if you place the mic in the center of the speaker, it will pick up a brighter sound. The more towards the edge you place it, the darker it becomes.
Click to expand...

^^ WORD ^^ - move your mic around and turn down the gain.
 
Do a forum search on 'fizzy guitars' - I needed some advice on this front recently and found tons of helpful stuff in the archives.
 
Sounds like you're using a condenser on the cab, that might not be the best option but if it's all you have then try and make you'll have to try and make it work.

Try what Farview said by going DI (direct In) and see if you can control the sound better with that.
 
also, especially with a condersor, try mic'ing it from farther away. What you get from a mic 6" away from the speaker is gonna always be different than what your ears are hearing from 6 feet away and often from higher up.
 
rfahey86 said:
When you find a tone you like. Turn down the gain about 1/3 of the way before you record. It will sound much better.
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What do I do if after I've turned it down 1/3 it sounds thin and weak and the tone's lost its balls and attack?
 
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Please do not take offense to what I am about to say.

Problem number one is that you're attempting to capture a JCM900 sound without a JCM900.

Problem number two is that you're using a POD through probably one of the worst amps imaginable, a Crate. This means that your guitar signal is being converted from analog to digital (through horrid converters), "modeled" to sound like a Marshall stack, and then converted back to analog again (through horrid converters). After all that it is then being amplified through a sub-standard practice amp that is just not going to reproduce what's left of the signal properly. It's just not. It will DEFINITELY color the sound into that crappy old Crate sound that got us through the 80's but just doesn't cut it here in 2011.

Problem number three is that you're attempting to capture it all with a Behringer microphone, a mic not known for it's guitar sound prowess. It is almost certainly not helping the situation.

My friend, you are fighting a losing battle. Give me that setup in the best of studios with the best mics and studio gadgetry in the world and I am pretty confident in saying that it will still suck at reproducing a heavy guitar sound to as epic a proportion as you have discovered yourself.

Bottom line when it comes to recording distorted guitars, or anything for that matter, is that you will never achieve a full, powerful and convincing tone by trickery.

Lastly, when it comes to recording distorted guitars there is only ONE tome out there that can shed light on the subject:

Slipperman's Distorted Guitars From Hell!!!!

Read it. Learn it. Love it.

...if you can get through it without pissing yourself laughing, that is.

Cheers :)

Ps. It's already been said, but I'd fore-go the amp from your setup. Just go straight in direct with the POD and use a good speaker emulation. It'll be WAY better than the Crate and that Behringer.
 
Thanks, i've tried amp simulation directly from the pod and it gets much easier, but right now im trying to improve my miking. Using less gain has improved the sound of my recordings, i'll keep trying and moving the mic around, thanks guys
 
My point is that miking is not your problem. You can mic that setup any which way you want, I doubt you will achieve better results. But go ahead...be my guest.

Cheers :)
 
Mo Facta said:
My point is that miking is not your problem. You can mic that setup any which way you want, I doubt you will achieve better results. But go ahead...be my guest.

Cheers :)
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his point is that he's learning about micing besides trying to get a better sound which he acknowledged he got after using the POD direct. He can absolutely learn some stuff about how moving a mic around affects the sound even if the gear he has will limit the quality of sound he ends up with.
 
Mo Facta said:
Problem number two is that you're using a POD through probably one of the worst amps imaginable, a Crate.
Click to expand...

If you want the POD sound. I would sell the POD and the Crate. The line 6 spider IV uses the same modeling, but sounds awesome with the Celestion speakers. Crate amps and speakers are among the worst. I've had a Crate 4x12 cab for about 5 years now. I've never found a use for it yet. It just doesn't sound good with any amp. OTOH, my line 6 cab sounds decent, no matter what amp is plugged into it.
 
Lt. Bob said:
his point is that he's learning about micing besides trying to get a better sound which he acknowledged he got after using the POD direct. He can absolutely learn some stuff about how moving a mic around affects the sound even if the gear he has will limit the quality of sound he ends up with.
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Fair enough but what is he going to reference to? How will he know what's better and worse for the situation?

Hmm...off axis...sounds crap. On axis...crap. Edge of the cone...crap.

All he's going to hear is comb filtering, which I guess in itself is helpful if you know what you're listening for, but still...no reference.

The most helpful reference, I believe, is still Slipperman's guide. All the answers are in there.

Cheers :)
 
Mo Facta said:
Fair enough but what is he going to reference to? How will he know what's better and worse for the situation?

Hmm...off axis...sounds crap. On axis...crap. Edge of the cone...crap.

All he's going to hear is comb filtering, which I guess in itself is helpful if you know what you're listening for, but still...no reference.

Cheers :)
Click to expand...
granted but there's a sense nowadays that there's no point in doing anything if you don't have the best gear.
I'd argue that most of us with long time experience and knowledge of this stuff started with poor gear. 40 years ago there really wasn't anything very good compared to even budget gear of today available to the home recordist. Yes, a few of us poneyed up for say, a 3340 ( I got mine in 1969) but the ancilliary gear that we could get was mostly crap and mics? A 57 was about the best you could get etc.
I'm of the opinion that if all you have is so-so gear, it's best to go ahead and start learning whatever you can as opposed to doing nothing 'till you can afford better stuff.
For many people waiting till you get better gear can essentially mean never.

Your milage may vary of course.
 
Mo Facta said:
Fair enough but what is he going to reference to? How will he know what's better and worse for the situation?

Hmm...off axis...sounds crap. On axis...crap. Edge of the cone...crap.

All he's going to hear is comb filtering, which I guess in itself is helpful if you know what you're listening for, but still...no reference.

The most helpful reference, I believe, is still Slipperman's guide. All the answers are in there.

Cheers :)
Click to expand...
It's more like "Hmm...off axis...sounds dark crap. On axis...bright crap. Edge of the cone...muddy crap."

I agree with Lt. Bob, you can learn a lot more by attempting to get half-assed crap to work than by sticking a mic in the textbook place on the perfect amp for the job. You are more likely to learn why you place a mic where you do instead of just doing it because 'that's where it goes'.
 
Don't get me wrong guys, I am totally for experimenting. It's how we all learned.

However, I was mostly responding to this part of the OP:

As for this, I want to make the best I can out of the equipment I have.
Click to expand...

And basically my answer was, the best you can hope for... is crap! Sorry if it's a bit hard but sadly, I fear it's true. It's the age old problem with recording with substandard gear and no experience: expecting to get great results and beating yourself up (or your gear) for not achieving it.

Most of the time it's neither one or the other, but often both.

The only remedy, as you say, is to keep experimenting. But hell, put me in a cave with a tele and a JC-120 and tell me to achieve a cannibal corpse guitar sound and I'll be damned if I can do it with all the experimenting in the world. It's just not going to happen.

Cheers :)
 
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