Recording Distorted Guitars

[jjac7212]

Hey,

its to my understanding that top-notch studios will use tube amps in their distorted guitar recording process. stuff like the vox ac-30, fender twin and marshall jcms. but is there a place for the solid state amplifiers?

i made the biggest mistake on blowing my 18th birthday money on buying a solid state marshall MG 250dfx. it sounded great in store, sounds fucking awesome in my room at any volume, but as soon as i place a 57 in front of it and use the overdrive channel, that nasty 2.5khz range nearly blows my tweeters connected to my DAW. basically i just wanted to know (since i cant afford a tube amp yet) is it at all possible to get a good guitar sound from one of these solid state amps.

the equipment i own: marshall mg 250 dfx (50 watt 2x12 solid state combo), boss ds-1 distortion, boss me-50 multiple effects and an epiphone SG G310.
i found that using the ds-1 straight into the clean channel seems to get a fair result. but i was wondering if there was any other suggestions.

one more thing, i was also poking around pawn shops looking for a smallish all tube amp. maybe a fender or something, in terms of around a <20 watt amp, which one is a good one to get. i just need an idea so i can start saving.

 

[StackableMusic]

There have been plenty of good recordings with solid state amps. Tubes were out of fashion for a while, you know, but they still had records during that period.

As far as getting a good sound goes, mic placement greatly affects what you get out of your amp. Try different placements, angles and distances. A little bit of subtractive eq can work wonders also.

 

[jonnyc]

Ok, first off there aren't really a ton of recordings that you've heard that were done with solidstate amps. Though there are some(I believe Metallica used a Roland JC120 for their clean tones). Second, tubes have NEVER gone out of fashion, they've always been used in top notch guitar amps. However that doesn't mean your Marshall is a total piece of shit, it's not. You just really need to work with the eq and probably roll off the gain a tiny bit. Also you have to be careful with mic placement, don't put the mic right in the center of the speaker you're going to get all kinds of crazy fizz from that area of the cone. I could recommend you some decent tube amps but I really need to know what kind of music you're doing. Give me some more info and I can give you some recommendations.

 

[mrface2112]

sounds fucking awesome in my room at any volume, but as soon as i place a 57 in front of it ....

so it sounds good in the room? the simple answer is put the mic where your ears are when you're hearing it sound great. if it sounds great in the room--put the mic where your head is. i mean, do you ever listen to an amp from right against the speaker?

then, if the recorded track still doesn't sound great after recording from where it sounds good to your ears, then your amp and/or room are lying to you.

it could be the amp itself, the speakers, the mic, the preamp, where you've got the amp positioned in the room, the room itself, the pickups in the guitar, the guitar itself, the player, or simply just too much gain. hard to tell without hearing it in the room and on tape.

there are plenty of solid state amps on albums. the JC120 is all over the mid-80's Rush stuff, and a lot of Kirk Hammett's cleans are JC120 in nature. that said, tube amps just seem to saturate a little more pleasingly.

on a pawn shop budget and assuming you're looking for overdriven tones, i'd check out the Epiphone Valve Junior head and run it through one of the speakers in your current Marshall cabinet. for nice cleans and some of that fender brown, pick up a fender Champ.


cheers,
wade

 

[jonnyc]

so it sounds good in the room? the simple answer is put the mic where your ears are when you're hearing it sound great. if it sounds great in the room--put the mic where your head is. i mean, do you ever listen to an amp from right against the speaker?

then, if the recorded track still doesn't sound great after recording from where it sounds good to your ears, then your amp and/or room are lying to you.

it could be the amp itself, the speakers, the mic, the preamp, where you've got the amp positioned in the room, the room itself, the pickups in the guitar, the guitar itself, the player, or simply just too much gain. hard to tell without hearing it in the room and on tape.

there are plenty of solid state amps on albums. the JC120 is all over the mid-80's Rush stuff, and a lot of Kirk Hammett's cleans are JC120 in nature. that said, tube amps just seem to saturate a little more pleasingly.

on a pawn shop budget and assuming you're looking for overdriven tones, i'd check out the Epiphone Valve Junior head and run it through one of the speakers in your current Marshall cabinet. for nice cleans and some of that fender brown, pick up a fender Champ.


cheers,
wade

Ok Il'l change my previous statement. You probably haven't heard very many distorted guitar tracks that were done with solid state guitars. I know dimebag used a solidstate Randall on cowboys but I never really thought that tone was everything it could've been.

 

[ecktronic]

If the amp sounds good in the room then it should sound good recorded, thats if you have the right mics, mic placement, pres.

Eck

 

[NegadivOne]

I usually find that even when I think my distortion is perfect to the ear while playing, I still need to turn down the gain quite a bit to record it. Too much gain and it will just sound like static.

 

[jonnyc]

If the amp sounds good in the room then it should sound good recorded, thats if you have the right mics, mic placement, pres.

Eck

He's got a 57, so the right mic is there, pre's are not paramount for recording distorted guitar however the right pre would certainly make things easier. As far as mic placement, that is key along with dialing in the amp correctly. So really the knobs have to be turned to pleasing positions, the mic has to be on the correct part of the speaker and the amp has to be sitting in the right part of the room. Also get the amp off the floor.

 

[Sonixx]

He's got a 57, so the right mic is there...

not necessarily. I have several 57s that sound significantly different from others. these have an over abundance of mids and really do not sound very good on cabs. not all 57's are born equal.

 

[jonnyc]

not necessarily. I have several 57s that sound significantly different from others. these have an over abundance of mids and really do not sound very good on cabs. not all 57's are born equal.

I've also got a few and they all sound alike and very good on cabs. CLA always says if he could only use one mic it would be a 57.

 

[Sonixx]

I've also got a few and they all sound alike and very good on cabs. CLA always says if he could only use one mic it would be a 57.

good... just noting that not all 57's are the same.

 

[amra]

Experiment with mic placement, and try turning the presence and the highs down - even if it sounds a little dull in the room. Try aiming the mic at a 45 degree angle to the speaker, instead of straight at it. Try an inch off the speaker cloth, try 4 inches off, and try a foot, then 3 feet. Make a recording each way, and label it. Then go back and listen to them and tweak 'em and see if any of them are workable.

 

[superspit]

mg 250 dfx (50 watt 2x12 solid state combo)...

ain't nothing wrong with this little amp!!...they're a fine tranny!!!
Sell me yours??...pm me IF you're ever interested in selling it.
Regards,
Superspit.

 

[jjac7212]

yeah i suppose i did miss out on some details,
i do have a 57, and i have liften the amp off the ground, i found that the bass end could be growlier wen i put it on this old heavy wooden desk. so i did just that.

i was recently testing out different mic positons and angles. sometimes i like to angle it so that the mic is running paralell with the cone but facing towards the edge of the dust cap. im not sure how far away i should place this. also i was wondering if it would be a good idea to have it angled and far away enough to pick up some of the other speaker. would this be a good idea?
i hope this diagram translates

./-\ speaker cone, dust cap -
/ 57 mic placement

now in terms of getting it to track, i set my gain structure and crank my monitor speakers so that i can hear what the sound is going to sound like recorded. when its wrong i usually adjust the amp but should i be touching the EQ on my mixer? for example, the proximity effect is huge in these cases. should i be turning down bass on the console or the amp?

 

[superspit]

[/QUOTE]

./-\ speaker cone, dust cap -
/ 57 mic placement

now in terms of getting it to track, i set my gain structure and crank my monitor speakers so that i can hear what the sound is going to sound like recorded. when its wrong i usually adjust the amp but should i be touching the EQ on my mixer? for example, the proximity effect is huge in these cases. should i be turning down bass on the console or the amp? [/QUOTE]


your illustrated mic placement is as I do mine....but do continue to experiment with the distance, especially. (mine is around 200-250mm and amp set to lower volumes)...My amp (similar to yours, is on a carpeted floor)
Turn the bass down on the amp, not so much on the console side, record with your console as 'flat' as possible...you can alway post eq, if required.
Remember what has been said prior, get the amp sounding right, get your 57 placement/distance right, and a very minimal amount of post eq'ing will result...which is always a good thing.

you may want to Click my link below, and this will give you an example of what my sm57/Marshall split channel twin 50 does.....they're older recordings, but the sound suits this music.

Just my 23000 lira.

Spit.

 

[JCM900]

how come no-one mentioned to NOT use the boss dis pedal for recording.... thats like putting the suck knob on 10...

 

[StackableMusic]

how come no-one mentioned to NOT use the boss dis pedal for recording.... thats like putting the suck knob on 10...

Apparently that's what Black Francis used in The Pixies.

 

[Hi_Flyer]

If the amp sounds good in the room then it should sound good recorded, thats if you have the right mics, mic placement, pres.

Eck

I don't think this is always the case. Especially with some solid state amps. I have heard some solid state amps that had decent enough tone for playing live, but they didn't record all that well. Sometimes a cranked 4x12 will sound good just because its loud. Your ears get fooled into believing that louder just sounds better.

 

[superspit]

I don't think this is always the case. Especially with some solid state amps. I have heard some solid state amps that had decent enough tone for playing live, but they didn't record all that well. Sometimes a cranked 4x12 will sound good just because its loud. Your ears get fooled into believing that louder just sounds better.

mmmmmmmmmm........??????

It I don't understand this concept....

Basically, if you were to use a 5hit amp/5hit settings, you'll get a 5hit recording tone, be it tranny or valve.

5hit in = 5hit out!

 

[jonnyc]

mmmmmmmmmm........??????

It I don't understand this concept....

Basically, if you were to use a 5hit amp/5hit settings, you'll get a 5hit recording tone, be it tranny or valve.

5hit in = 5hit out!

No I agree with hi-flyer, sometimes an amp can sound really decent in the room and then when it comes to putting it to disk it just doesn't translate. I've recorded this exact amp and while I does sound decent in a recording it does not sound like a good, quality tube amp. BTW shit in/shit out is a pretty generic response that is extremely obvious.