Recording Consoles, etc.

Confusitron

Confusitron

New member
Since there is no "General Recording" forum, I'll be placing this here...

My band has begun to write songs and we need to record decent demos. We are looking to make a major purchase quite soon into recording and PA equipment.

We intend to buy a 24 channel mixer, which will effect what we intend to purchase for recording equipiment. Now, my question is, do we need to buy a recording console that can accomodate all 24 channels (which would be good for a live situation) or should we buy a 8-16 channel recording console?

What can you suggest for a brand/model for the recording console?

Should we go about purchasing PA and recording equipment at the same time?

I definitely need to elaborate more, but as of right now, I just need to get these things out here.
 
Most reasonable stand alone recorders only have around 8 tracks recording at once.

When you do record....you wont be using all 24 tracks (if you decide to get that) because you will be doing it instrument by bloody instrument.

If you record live....usually you just mic each instrument with one mic, cept for the drums which will need 3 at least (snare,bdrum,ovh)

So...will you need 24 channels??? That depends on if you have enough instruments to fill up those channels...if not...prob. wasting your money.
 
ya i'm a bit confused as to what you are planning to record on: a computer or a stand alone unit. Either way, getting a system going that can record 24 tracks at once will cost you.... I would shoot for a unit that does around 10 at once (like the echo gina 3G). That would give you a lot of flexability for recording the drums and possibly the bass at the same time. Maybe you could look at downgrading your mixer to a 16 channel one to save some cash as you may not need 24 channels live either.
 
Get the biggest mixer you can afford. There are always things you can find to do with any extra channels. There is nothing worse than spend a load of cash and out growing it inside of 3 months.
 
seryozha said:
If you record live....usually you just mic each instrument with one mic, cept for the drums which will need 3 at least (snare,bdrum,ovh)

So...will you need 24 channels??? That depends on if you have enough instruments to fill up those channels...if not...prob. wasting your money.
Click to expand...
Well, here is what I figure I'll be using for channels:

5 - Vocals
2 - Guitars
1 - Bass
2-4 - Keyboards
4/7-9 - Drums

I would have two channels used for stereo for each keyboard (two keyboards), or to fine tune one keyboard and put the other(s) on the other two channels. For the drums, I would have either one kick mic, snare mic, and two overheads (right/left), or I would have all five drums miced, maybe a mic on the bottom of the snare (probably not, but it's possible), and a separate mic for the hi-hats.
minofifa said:
ya i'm a bit confused as to what you are planning to record on: a computer or a stand alone unit. Either way, getting a system going that can record 24 tracks at once will cost you.... I would shoot for a unit that does around 10 at once (like the echo gina 3G). That would give you a lot of flexability for recording the drums and possibly the bass at the same time. Maybe you could look at downgrading your mixer to a 16 channel one to save some cash as you may not need 24 channels live either.
Click to expand...
Well, both a stand alone unit or a computer is fine, but it appears it would be less expensive to go with a computer (and I already have one of those). What about the LAYLA 24/96?

Maybe the number of mics for the drum set seems a little unrealistic as of right now, since we are a starting band. Should I keep it small for right now since I'm not even completely sure how to manage all of this?

Anymore suggestions?
 
If you need to really need to record 24 tracks at a time I would look into a Alesis HD24 and a 24 ch mixer. You can import all the files into your computer and use what ever program you choose or mix down to a 2-track if you're feeling lucky.
 
Or have a look at the M-Audio Delta 1010LT card.
It's $220 and has 8 inputs/8 outputs.
You can chain upto 4 of them together inside a PC to give you 16, 24 or 32 tracks
 
confusitron. it would help if you posted your computer configuration
so we can see if its good enough/make suggestions.
i would go with a pc solution. cant be beat imho.
and follow bulls recommendation and start recording. if you get what i use for software - powertracks from pgmusic.com you will have a nice solution that mates nice with the delta sound card and it only costs you 29 bucks
for 48 track recording either audio,midi, or a combo of both .
a guy called rharv on the powertracks forum at pgmusic.com has the delta / powertracks combo and loves it. if you think i'm lying just ask him on that forum.
he is just a happy user like me. you can also download the demo
to try.
some other multitrack software i like is ntrak, traktion,magix music studio,
and multitrackstudio.com. the latter imho is a hidden gem .
and probably the most underrrated unknown software ive come across in a long time. but powertracks has the advantage of an extensive range of midi functions.
 
manning1 said:
confusitron. it would help if you posted your computer configuration
so we can see if its good enough/make suggestions.
i would go with a pc solution. cant be beat imho.
and follow bulls recommendation and start recording. if you get what i use for software - powertracks from pgmusic.com you will have a nice solution that mates nice with the delta sound card and it only costs you 29 bucks
for 48 track recording either audio,midi, or a combo of both .
a guy called rharv on the powertracks forum at pgmusic.com has the delta / powertracks combo and loves it. if you think i'm lying just ask him on that forum.
he is just a happy user like me. you can also download the demo
to try.
some other multitrack software i like is ntrak, traktion,magix music studio,
and multitrackstudio.com. the latter imho is a hidden gem .
and probably the most underrrated unknown software ive come across in a long time. but powertracks has the advantage of an extensive range of midi functions.
Click to expand...
My computer that I use for recording is an IBM Aptiva from about 1999. It's got a 550 MHZ Athlon processor, 768 MB of ram, and a 200 GB hard drive for storing the recording stuff. I've got access to a few other faster systems, but, I don't have them as of right now. I was almost considering building a rackmount recording computer.

Your plan sounds great and very inexpensive! I could buy three of those and have the entire mixer covered for recording and then some.
 
Dunno if this helps you or not...

My band has just been recording with my small time studio setup:

Fostex VM200 (unbelievable bang for buck)
RME Digi98/8PST (PCI card for ADAT to VM200)
Dual 17" Monitors on Athlon 2600 with 1gig RAM and loads of HDD
Alesis Monitor 1 Mk2 Monitors
Multi tracking software (about to buy Sonar actually after looking at a few)
Couple of cheap external valve pre-amps, compressor, bits and bobs.
2 SM57s
1 SM58
Some crappo mikes (total 3 all up on kit)

It was all bought very cheaply through eBay mostly and the result to CD has been pretty damn good for a low grade setup.

The PC was built to suit and does not miss a beat (I've built poota since Amigas were good which helped) and if you want to do a quick setup for limited dollars, then I can vouch for the way I've gone.

The only drawback is that you get real enthused and start shopping for the 'next step'... :)
 
Confusitron said:
Well, here is what I figure I'll be using for channels:

5 - Vocals
2 - Guitars
1 - Bass
2-4 - Keyboards
4/7-9 - Drums

I would have two channels used for stereo for each keyboard (two keyboards), or to fine tune one keyboard and put the other(s) on the other two channels. For the drums, I would have either one kick mic, snare mic, and two overheads (right/left), or I would have all five drums miced, maybe a mic on the bottom of the snare (probably not, but it's possible), and a separate mic for the hi-hats.
Well, both a stand alone unit or a computer is fine, but it appears it would be less expensive to go with a computer (and I already have one of those). What about the LAYLA 24/96?

Maybe the number of mics for the drum set seems a little unrealistic as of right now, since we are a starting band. Should I keep it small for right now since I'm not even completely sure how to manage all of this?

Anymore suggestions?
Click to expand...

I’m confused. You want to record your band live?

I’ve got an 8 channel system and it could handle your band, but not “live”. Not sure what your budget is but going to 16 input DAW is gonna run you a lot more $$. I’m using a MAudio Delta 1010 and it could do what you need to do but there are many others that will do the same thing. In the configuration I’ve got you will need a mixing console and I’ve got an 8 channel Alesis that has direct outputs on every channel so if I record drums using lets say 6-7 mics I can out all those on their own track which is good when your mixing. You can do all your mixing in your recording program. One thing to look out for is the routing capabilities of all these cheap mixers. I like having direct outs on every channel but you will find Mackies and Yamaha’s and others that don’t give you that. The best thing is to find a console that will give the ability to switch the direct outs either pre or post EQ, like Soundcraft M series as an example.
 
confusitron. you should be able to do quite a few tracks like maybe
even more than 18 using your current aptiva system MAYBE.
what i would do is download some demoes like the powertracks i mentioned.
up in its menus you will see an option which you click on and it will tell you how many tracks your system is good for to give you an idea.
but if were me i would consider a new amd athlon system. these are normally good for 60 plus tracks with good drives.
or go whole hog and go wild and get an amd 64 system. but very expensive.
consider seriously the delta sound cards.
 
Confusitron said:
Your plan sounds great and very inexpensive! I could buy three of those and have the entire mixer covered for recording and then some.
Click to expand...

A big mixer & 3 LTs, and you've got a 24 track recording studio. Nice
 
therage! said:
I’m confused. You want to record your band live?
Click to expand...
It would be nice to have the capability, but it's not totally necessary, though... Although, now that I've found these rather inexpensive PCI cards, I can most likely do it. However, I do find it that the M-Audio Delta 1010LT is a little unusual... It has six unbalanced RCA inputs and two XLR inputs... Are you just supposed to spend money on adapters for all of those connectors?
 
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Confusitron said:
I would be nice to have the capability, but it's not totally necessary, though... Although, now that I've found these rather inexpensive PCI cards, I can most likely do it. However, I do find it that the M-Audio Delta 1010LT is a little unusual... It has six unbalanced RCA inputs and two XLR inputs... Are you just supposed to spend money on adapters for all of those connectors?
Click to expand...

The direct outs on my console are unbalanced so I go with RCA to 1/4 cables. You can also 1/4 to XLR or whatever you need. I don't think you need adapters, just the right cable configuration. If you already have a bunch of 1/4 to 1/4 then yes adapters might be the way to go.
 
therage! said:
The direct outs on my console are unbalanced so I go with RCA to 1/4 cables. You can also 1/4 to XLR or whatever you need. I don't think you need adapters, just the right cable configuration. If you already have a bunch of 1/4 to 1/4 then yes adapters might be the way to go.
Click to expand...
Well, then, the card should work fine, but, is there any difference in audio quality between the RCA and XLR connectors? Would I buy an XLR to mono 1/4" adapter so that I could could get the same quality as the RCA jacks from the XLRs? Or would I buy an XLR to stereo 1/4" to keep the balanced connection? Although, I can't imagine that there are audible differences between the XLR and RCA...
 
Xlr is balanced, as is TRS 1/4 (or stereo as you called it) RCA is not. If you are running unballanced there is no difference between the connectors.
 
Farview said:
Xlr is balanced, as is TRS 1/4 (or stereo as you called it) RCA is not. If you are running unballanced there is no difference between the connectors.
Click to expand...
Beautiful. Now all we need to do is purchase three of those and a mixer. If I can get a 32 channel mixer cheap, then I'll make that four of them... It's amazing how affordable that is!

Now I'll just need to decide on software.

Thank you all very much!

There are still more questions to come.
 
confusitron. i'm confused now.
when you say "three of those" are you talking about installing 3 sound cards ? or am i missing something ?
i would seriously doubt that an old aptiva would handle that many inputs being recorded concurrently.
so i ask you. what is the ideal number of channels (mics) that you want the computer to record at the same time ?
8 ? 16 ? 24 ? 32 ? please clarify.
what i thought you might be thinking of doing is plugging in say 16 mics into a mixer then subgrouping to 4 channels to a 4 input sound card on the pc. please clarify. if indeed you want to record a ton of tracks at once direct to the pc . we are talking a different ball game.
 
manning1 said:
confusitron. i'm confused now.
when you say "three of those" are you talking about installing 3 sound cards ? or am i missing something ?
i would seriously doubt that an old aptiva would handle that many inputs being recorded concurrently.
so i ask you. what is the ideal number of channels (mics) that you want the computer to record at the same time ?
8 ? 16 ? 24 ? 32 ? please clarify.
what i thought you might be thinking of doing is plugging in say 16 mics into a mixer then subgrouping to 4 channels to a 4 input sound card on the pc. please clarify. if indeed you want to record a ton of tracks at once direct to the pc . we are talking a different ball game.
Click to expand...
"Three of those" is referring to the M-Audio Delta 1010LTs. I guess I don't NEED that many as of right now, but I will eventually get three.

I do have access to newer computers (I think one is a 700 MHZ Celeron).

In a recording studio situation, at a max, , I would record probably eight channels simultaneously.

Now, I don't NEED to record every channel live. I don't need to get that complicated, and I don't even NEED to record live, but, I figure, if I can, why not? Recording live isn't really a required thing, I guess. Not like the live recordings are as important as studio recordings.
 
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