Recording Bluegrass

[tronus]

I am new to recording and i want to try to record my cousins bluegrass band. We both understand that we are new to this. We are just trying to learn. Im not sure of the technique at all. The band would like to record live and not go back, and track the audio in. So if anyone has any advice at all, feel free to respond.

1.) can I run the mandolin and banjos preamps into my recording soundcard safely?

2.) Im going to run the acoustic instruments (banjo, mandolin) pickups, through acoustic instrument preamps, into my card. We also have 3 condenser mics. Not the stick-like instrument ones, but the soda can shaped ones. Where should we put those?

At the moment i can't think of any other questions. If anyone has any advice please reply.

 

[Red Dog Studios]

Hello there,

You should have no problem running the pre's into your soundcard. but just to be safe, i'd turn the gain or volume all the way down, plug the pres into the soundcard, then have them play and slowy turn the gain up until you get a good signal that is hot but doesnt distort.

As for the mics, do you know what pattern they are? if they have a omni patter (meaning the mic will pic up anything with in the 360 degrees.) if you have a mic with that pattern, i would get the whole band to stand in a circle around the mic and record that way. Then if anyone has a solo to do or anything, just get them to stand up closer to make them stand out. Then i would put the other 2 mics on 2 sides, above the band and pan both of those to stereo and get a nice spred and use the mic in the middle for your low sounds and middle sounds.

Now, if your mics are not of that pattern, then i would one of the mics infront of the standup bass (around the sound holes, but dont get to close) and then split the band into 2 sides (banjo, mandolin, fiddle on one side, and then guitar, bass, dobro or w/e on the other side) and stand the mics in the middle of both sides and record it and pan both mics to stereo.

Just mess around with the mic set us and eq to get a good sound and becareful of phasing between the mics. good luck

Zeke Sayer

 

[Dani Pace]

I've recorded a bluegrass band a couple of times, once in the studio and once live (southern gospel in a little country church.) For the live recording I just ran from the lines out (stereo pa) to the lines in on my soundcard. This worked fairly well, it may have helped that I was running the board for the pa too so I had control over the volumes and panning. Any way, they were happy with the results and to me that is what mattered at the time. I'm not saying this is the best way, it's just one way that can work.

 

[Track Rat]

I've recorded a few bluegrass bands. The best luck I've had was with a single mic (an AT4033 to be exact) and the band just gathered around it. If no one wants to do dubs, I'd do this or a stereo pair.

 

[AGCurry]

1.) can I run the mandolin and banjos preamps into my recording soundcard safely?

2.) Im going to run the acoustic instruments (banjo, mandolin) pickups, through acoustic instrument preamps, into my card. We also have 3 condenser mics. Not the stick-like instrument ones, but the soda can shaped ones. Where should we put those?

At the moment i can't think of any other questions. If anyone has any advice please reply.

Instrument preamps? Bluegrass is acoustic music.

I'd use the Dani Pace method for live and the Track Rat method (stereo pair) for studio. I disagree with Red Dog Studio's suggestion to put a mic in front of the bass. The upright bass will come through just fine without having a mic in front of it.

 

[RAK]

I've recorded a few bluegrass bands. The best luck I've had was with a single mic (an AT4033 to be exact) and the band just gathered around it. If no one wants to do dubs, I'd do this or a stereo pair.

I agree, this is what I was going to say.
Think about most bluegrass bands you've seen play. It's a small group of people playing acoustic instruments (usually no drummer) all gathered around one vocal mic. I'd try to replicate that as much as possible.

The nature of bluegrass music weighs heavily on musicianship and instrument craftsmanship. My guess is you won't be happy going all DI, but I could be wrong. So I'm guessing you have at least upright bass, acoustic guitar, mandolin, and banjo, (with possibly fiddle, dobro, 2nd guitar?)

With three mics, I would either do one vocal mic and stereo instrument mics, or two vocal mics and one instrument mic, depending on the size of the group, who sings, mic polar pattern options, and how close they all stand to each other.

Anyway I guess what I'm getting at, is I would try to replicate the live sound as much as possible, since this jives with the spirit of the music. I think it's good they all want to play together with minimal retracking.

 

[rfire]

DI's?

Looking back on my earliest recordings, I relied on the DI inputs from acoustic instruments. I'd love to turn back the clock and talk some sense into myself! Acoustic is acoustic- piezios sound like a cheap sample of the instrument they are supposed to represent.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'd concur with Track Rat and RAK (TrackRAK??? ), keep it simple and record mono or close-pair stereo using the soda cans. (BTW, for future reference, the "stick-like" condensors are usually what are called small-diaphragm condensors, or SDCs for short, and the "soda cans" are - you got it - large-diaphragm condensors, or LDCs for short.) Use 2 LDCs as a stereo pair for the best results with the gear you have, IMHumbleO.

Also, a common mistake among first-timers: When going into your soundcard you need to make sure you are using the correct input jacks. You have two input jacks, MIC in and LINE in. Use the MIC in only for microphones that are *not* already running through an external mic preamplifier. For mics going through a preamp first, you need to use to LINE in to get the proper levels.

G.

 

[tronus]

Wow, thanks for all the great info. Im definatly more on my way than I was before. Now that i have all that, I have just a couple more questions.

1.)With the "soda-can" stereo pair. Does it matter in which direction i point the two mics in the middle of the band? Do they even "point" (omni/uni)?

2.)also heres the instrument break down of their band.
banjo, acoustic guitar, mandolin, and the bass player plass his electric bass through a bass amp. His upright is 3 hours away. How should i capture him and blend him in?

3.)Southside said something right before this reply about running non amped mics into the mic inputs and amped mics into the line ins. Does that mean use line in, when I add a phantom power box to each of the condenser mic lines?

Thanks for all the help everyone. Everyones input has been very useful to me.

 

[RAK]

1.)With the "soda-can" stereo pair. Does it matter in which direction i point the two mics in the middle of the band? Do they even "point" (omni/uni)?

Which mics specifically do you have? Most everyday LDCs are probably set in a Cardiod position (directional), or they have switchable polar patterns, in which case you have options. Mics like the Neumann U87 or AKG C414 for example, do have a front and a back, so make sure you point them the right way. I'd do some searching on XY, ORTF, NOS stereo mic techniques to learn a little more.

2.)also heres the instrument break down of their band.
banjo, acoustic guitar, mandolin, and the bass player plass his electric bass through a bass amp. His upright is 3 hours away. How should i capture him and blend him in?

In that case I would probably just take the bass direct, don't even worry about the amp or micing.

Do they all sing? If you got 1 more Omni mic, you could do something like close micing each instrument (guitar, banjo, mando), and putting one Omni for the vocals in the middle. You'll get instrument bleed into the vocal mic, but could be interesting. Will they play sitting or standing?

3.)Southside said something right before this reply about running non amped mics into the mic inputs and amped mics into the line ins. Does that mean use line in, when I add a phantom power box to each of the condenser mic lines?

Yeah, you want to use Line in. Are you sure your mic pres don't have phantom power, and that you need external phantom power supplies?

Just curious, what kind of soundcard/software are you using?