Recording acoustic guitars

G

Gaviao

New member
So I'm looking at getting a 2 input usb interface to get my hands dirty with computer based recording. I was wondering about mic choice and mic placement for recording acoustic guitar. Here are the mics that I have:

MXL 992 Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone
http://tinyurl.com/yfcm9bs

MXL 993 Condenser Microphones Stereo Pair
http://tinyurl.com/cuh8zy

2 Shure SM57 betas

1 Shure SM58 beta

a couple of random off-brand dynamic mics

Thanks!
 
I like to do it in M/S like this

msacoustic2.jpg


Above are two M/S setups
 
I have been recording bluegrass stuff for about 10 years now, so I know the frustrations with trying to get that guitar to sound out of the speakers the way it does to your ears when you are playing it. so many variables can make the it sound different. I used the x/y method for a long time with decent results, then switched to the m/s method, which I prefer. My m/s method employed a shure pm 58 pointed at the 12th fret, and then two condenser mics (I have used the B-1, AT2020 and the MXL 990) one placed to the right and one to the left of this middle mic pointed 90 degrees away from the center. Panning those mics right and left respectively and leaving the middle one centered gives a good stereo pattern. However, for whatever reason, (my mics, my room) i didnt feel like I was getting the full depth of my martin, so I experimented with adding mics in a fan pattern and some other methods. I have finally hit on a solution that works for me. I use the two mics pointing away from one another for the right left, and I have a fishman rare earth humbucking soundhole pickup run through an LR Baggs acoustic preamp for the center. The pickup does a great job of filling in those frequencies that the mics might miss while preserving the acoustic quality of the sound which a pickup can make sound unnatural.

I know this goes beyond your two input set up, but it's what works for me. I also know it should probably be in the sticky up top. maybe i'll x post
 
Gaviao said:
So I'm looking at getting a 2 input usb interface to get my hands dirty with computer based recording. I was wondering about mic choice and mic placement for recording acoustic guitar. Here are the mics that I have:

MXL 992 Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone
http://tinyurl.com/yfcm9bs

MXL 993 Condenser Microphones Stereo Pair
http://tinyurl.com/cuh8zy

2 Shure SM57 betas

1 Shure SM58 beta

a couple of random off-brand dynamic mics

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hmm. You're going to want the condensers here - you CAN put a SM57 on an acoustic, and for certain sounds it'll work, but if you're after a "natural" acoustic sound that's not the way to go.

Try a couple things. First, try putting the two 993's in an X-Y array - make a v out of them with their capsules almost touching, at about a 90% angle from each other, like so: \/ just obviously a little steeper. Point the "arrow" they form straight at the neck of the guitar, either at the 12th fret or (what seems to work for me) around the 15th, where the neck joins the body, a couple inches away (I usually end up between 4" ad 6", probably). Then, record each to a seperate track, and pan one left and the other right. This is pretty safe if your room isn't the greatest.

Another approach worth a try (especially if your room is such that you can get away with more distant micing) is to put one SDC pointed at the 12th fret, angled a bit facing the body of the guitar, and then take your LDC and position it at about the level of your right ear (if you're a rightie - left if you're a leftie. Opposite the SDC, is the biggie), facing down at the guitar. The idea here is to capture a lot of the presence from the SDC, but then also to capture the sound of the guitar with the LDC in the manner you as a guitarist are used to hearing it.

Finally, if you have a nice room, try taking that LDC, put it maybe 6' away from you facing you, and just play. If you have a good room and the mix is such that you can get away with a very "live in the room" sounding guitar, and you don't need a stereo recording of the guitar, you can sometimes get great results this way.
 
We need more details to go with "accoustic guitar recording". Is it just a guitar by itself? Is it in a bluegrass band? Is it in a rock band? Is it behind blazing electric guitars? Is the song happy? Sad? Aggressive? Do you want it to sound authentic? Do you want it to sound "bigger than life"? Do you want it to sound "thin"? Trashy? Perfect?

Even then it is impossible to answer without being in the room at the time of recording.

It could literally be any of those mics in any position in any combination.


Take every mic you have and throw sound at them one at a time. Voices, guitars, any sound you can make. Test the mics with the sound going straight in. Test the mics with the sound sort of skimming over the top at an angle. Test the mics pointed away from the sound. Test the mics near. Test the mics far.

Learn how every mic you own responds to all types of sounds coming from all types of directions. Then learn how they respond when teaming up with another mic.

All of that testing can take days, weeks, or years. Be patient. And that testing never ends. Got a new room? Test again! Put a new huge bookshelf in your existing room? Test again! Got a new mic? Test again! etc. Never stop learning.

Then plan out your song. Select a mood. Mentally select a guitar sound to compliment that mood. Go to your mental repository of mic sounds that you built with the listening exersises and use the mic(s) and positions(s) that make that sound.
 
Most importance advice I've gotten is:

Stay away from the soundhole. 12th fret is generally starting point as the money spot.
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Hmm. You're going to want the condensers here - you CAN put a SM57 on an acoustic, and for certain sounds it'll work, but if you're after a "natural" acoustic sound that's not the way to go.

Try a couple things. First, try putting the two 993's in an X-Y array - make a v out of them with their capsules almost touching, at about a 90% angle from each other, like so: \/ just obviously a little steeper. Point the "arrow" they form straight at the neck of the guitar, either at the 12th fret or (what seems to work for me) around the 15th, where the neck joins the body, a couple inches away (I usually end up between 4" ad 6", probably). Then, record each to a seperate track, and pan one left and the other right. This is pretty safe if your room isn't the greatest.

Another approach worth a try (especially if your room is such that you can get away with more distant micing) is to put one SDC pointed at the 12th fret, angled a bit facing the body of the guitar, and then take your LDC and position it at about the level of your right ear (if you're a rightie - left if you're a leftie. Opposite the SDC, is the biggie), facing down at the guitar. The idea here is to capture a lot of the presence from the SDC, but then also to capture the sound of the guitar with the LDC in the manner you as a guitarist are used to hearing it.

Finally, if you have a nice room, try taking that LDC, put it maybe 6' away from you facing you, and just play. If you have a good room and the mix is such that you can get away with a very "live in the room" sounding guitar, and you don't need a stereo recording of the guitar, you can sometimes get great results this way.
Click to expand...

This sounds like a great place to start... thank you!
 
I used quite a few different mic approaches to record acoustic guitar...some were decent, but many gave so-so results. There was always some aspect of the tone that wasn't quite the way I wanted it...and the sound was never the sound I heard from the guitar while playing it.

Well....just on a whim I tried one of these, and now I doubt I will ever put up mics for acoustic guitars ever again (unless it happens to have nylon strings).

These things sound fantastic! I have two of the three models (ProMag Plus and ProMag Grand)...and may eventually pick up the ProMag Gold too.
Not to mention...these are great for playing acoustic guitar live...just plug into an amp instead of messing with mics, or DI into the PA.

ProMagGoldLg.jpg



http://www.deanmarkley.com/Pickups/ProMag.shtml

And don't be too proud and think that you have to use a mic for acoustic guitars...;)...'cuz once you try a ProMag, you'll be smiling. :)
With these, it’s just so easy to get the great acoustic sound that you hear when playing.
 
miroslav said:
I used quite a few different mic approaches to record acoustic guitar...some were decent, but many gave so-so results. There was always some aspect of the tone that wasn't quite the way I wanted it...and the sound was never the sound I heard from the guitar while playing it.

Well....just on a whim I tried one of these, and now I doubt I will ever put up mics for acoustic guitars ever again (unless it happens to have nylon strings).

These things sound fantastic! I have two of the three models (ProMag Plus and ProMag Grand)...and may eventually pick up the ProMag Gold too.
Not to mention...these are great for playing acoustic guitar live...just plug into an amp instead of messing with mics, or DI into the PA.

ProMagGoldLg.jpg



http://www.deanmarkley.com/Pickups/ProMag.shtml

And don't be too proud and think that you have to use a mic for acoustic guitars...;)...'cuz once you try a ProMag, you'll be smiling. :)
With these, it’s just so easy to get the great acoustic sound that you hear when playing.
Click to expand...

Gotta tell ya...I'm a skeptic. Can I hear a sample of recording made with that p'up that you'd say sounds as good as one done with mics?
 
Skeptic...why? :confused:

This isn't some new/untried product....Google it, there's enough comments out there.

For about $40-$50...it will beat most mics, and I have enough decent mics to say that.
I'm not saying you can't get good sounds with mics...but it's so much easier with these ProMags.
You get a totally balanced sound low strings to high...not having to aim from any angles, and you don't have to then hold still while playing so as not to lose that position. You can play nice and comfortable....plus, you don't get as much string squeak noise as you will with mics.
Also, if you want that full-on sound where you would need to put the mic pretty much right in front...you won't get any boom from the sound hole with a ProMag.
Finally...it takes the room and any outside noise out of the equation....you just get pure, clean signal.

If you have a great room and top mics...that's fine, but I still say the ProMag is just so quick-n-easy...it's great.
nice well-balanced sound...no tone or level "drift" if you move while playing.

If you're skeptical...try one, I recommend the Grand for recording, though the Plus has a more brighter pop since it's based on a single coil....so it can depend on the type of guitar you are using...which is why having all three isn't a bad idea, and the price of all three is less than the cost of one real good mic.

Buy one...try one...and you won't be a skeptic. ;)
If you don't like it...you can sell it on eBay without any $$$ loss.
 
Todzilla said:
Most importance advice I've gotten is:

Stay away from the soundhole. 12th fret is generally starting point as the money spot.
Click to expand...

That can be subjective on the guitar being played too...some are too boomy at the sound hole...but some can give you good results too...like a taylor can be mic'ed at the soundhole and sound sweet.

I do play one with f holes too (L50)...and some ovations have smaller holes located above the strings.

I dont use 2 mics unless if its a solo instrument.
 
miroslav said:
Well....just on a whim I tried one of these, and now I doubt I will ever put up mics for acoustic guitars ever again (unless it happens to have nylon strings).

.
Click to expand...

sure a pickup can give you a clean track...but so can the piezos on board of most of these guitars.
Mics can allow you to do different things with the sound...while the pickup systems pretty much give you one look.

Ever try a Variax 300 acoustic...I swear I played on one with old strings and the model going out of the jack sounded like brand new strings and the sound coming out of the hole alone was dead???...the pickups on that thing are really something to make that happen for you...lol.
 
I think these sound better than piezos.
And speaking of the soundhole...too often that's the area mics are most difficult to place, so everyone has their mics in odd places in order to get their sound.

I'll go ProMag every time...and if I need some "air"...it's easy enough to put up a mic a few feet away and mix it in, which may be a nice way to get the best of both worlds, and I bet the ProMag track will end up carrying most of the mix of the two.

Again...this isn't meant as an absolute replacement for mics, and anyone needing/wanting to spend the time getting that real ambient kind of acoustic sound only with mics, might still prefer that approach, if the song calls for it...though for a lot of mixes, you lose all that ambiance anyway, and are instead needing a more clean/balanced acoustic sound that can hold up in the mix!
For an easy setup that yields a strong/balanced acoustic guitar sound without having the boom that often comes from trying to get it with a mic or 2-3 mics (and then you're having to EQ out that boom or add more sparkle to the highs)... the ProMag does a good clean (yes clean ;) ) and balanced sounding acoustic track, so it’s a no-brainer for a lot of stuff, IMO.

Look at it this way...it's another tool, another flavor...and I think anyone that tries one will be happy with the results, but I know sometimes it just seems to go against the whole recording vibe…:D …plugging in an acoustic guitar instead of miking it. :eek:

If I have some time later I will record a few clips of both ProMags…you can judge the overall quality.
Hey…there’s guys that love using plastic-wrapped strings on their guitars…while others find that to be “blasphemy”….so you just go with what works for you. :)
 
miroslav said:
Skeptic...why? :confused:

This isn't some new/untried product....Google it, there's enough comments out there.
Click to expand...

I am too. A magnetic under-string pickup captures the sound of a guitar in a VERY different manner than a condensor microphone, if nothing else because it takes the sound of the body out of the equation to a large extent. I'm sure it gets "nice" results, but from what little experimentation I've done with soundhole mics, I would suspect it would be a different "flavor" of acoustic tone relative to a well-placed mic, rather than a straight-up replacement.

If you do get the time to record a couple clips, would you mind also simultaneously recording the guitar through one or two appropriately positioned mics? IT'd make for a better, more scientific comparison, IMO.
 
miroslav said:
Skeptic...why? :confused:

This isn't some new/untried product....Google it, there's enough comments out there.

For about $40-$50...it will beat most mics, and I have enough decent mics to say that.
I'm not saying you can't get good sounds with mics...but it's so much easier with these ProMags.
You get a totally balanced sound low strings to high...not having to aim from any angles, and you don't have to then hold still while playing so as not to lose that position. You can play nice and comfortable....plus, you don't get as much string squeak noise as you will with mics.
Also, if you want that full-on sound where you would need to put the mic pretty much right in front...you won't get any boom from the sound hole with a ProMag.
Finally...it takes the room and any outside noise out of the equation....you just get pure, clean signal.

If you have a great room and top mics...that's fine, but I still say the ProMag is just so quick-n-easy...it's great.
nice well-balanced sound...no tone or level "drift" if you move while playing.

If you're skeptical...try one, I recommend the Grand for recording, though the Plus has a more brighter pop since it's based on a single coil....so it can depend on the type of guitar you are using...which is why having all three isn't a bad idea, and the price of all three is less than the cost of one real good mic.

Buy one...try one...and you won't be a skeptic. ;)
If you don't like it...you can sell it on eBay without any $$$ loss.
Click to expand...

Do you have one? (I'm assuming you do.) I just asked for a link to a track so I could hear it. Isn't that easier than me buying one, trying it, then reselling it if I don't like it? It's also something commonly done on boards like this--part of what makes the community special.

Me? I'll post (and have!) samples of everything I've got. When I'm stoked about something I love to turn others on to it as well.
 
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