recording acoustic and vocal simultaneously.

[Steenamaroo]

hi all..

i have a project tomorrow where i have to record an acoustic singer/songwriter singing and playing at the same time...

now,,,,there's nothing else to be added to the mix as it's for his band to practice to more than anything,,,

and the overall sound doesn't have to be immense,,,
but,i've tried this before with other people, and ended up just recording separately cos of the bleed and maybe phase issues?

the guitar and singer are an unknown unfortunately (sorry)



anyway,,,,there are a few threads about this, which i've read, but my question's slightly more specific,

out of my mics what would you use??

Rode nt1a
Shure sm81 x2
Shure sm58
Shure sm7b
Sennheiser MD421N x2
Electro Voice 635a x4 (2 of which should have arrived by tomorow)
Electro Voice RE11 (should have arrived tomorrow)
Samson Qkick
Samson Qsnare
Samson Qtom x3
Samson CO2 x2
AKG D112
Marshall MXL 990



i had contemplated some mix of the big dynamics? but what do you think?


also, the room is less than desirable, so i think i'd prefer close miking.


thanks in advance all!
thanks.

 

[Ronan]

To me this set up is more different than recording orchestras.

I would definitely start with your dynamics (SM7 should be a good choice for vox) also if the guitarist has a built in pick up, I would try to record that as well. I really dislike the sound of a acoustic DI, but it can open up some options in mix time if you are having trouble getting presence from the acoustic.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Ive found a little bleed doesnt hurt it at all...the worst thing you can do is asking the singer to do them seperately if they are uncomfortable with that...a few guys Ive recorded didnt do as well not doing both at the same time...and I market myself to coffiehouse folk singers a lot.

 

[darrin_h2000]

To me this set up is more different than recording orchestras.

I would definitely start with your dynamics (SM7 should be a good choice for vox) also if the guitarist has a built in pick up, I would try to record that as well. I really dislike the sound of a acoustic DI, but it can open up some options in mix time if you are having trouble getting presence from the acoustic.

What do you think of the Senn MD421...Ive used it beside the sm7 for most everything I used the sm7 before and it usually sounds a bit nicer.

 

[LeeRosario]

hi all..

i have a project tomorrow where i have to record an acoustic singer/songwriter singing and playing at the same time...

now,,,,there's nothing else to be added to the mix as it's for his band to practice to more than anything,,,

and the overall sound doesn't have to be immense,,,
but,i've tried this before with other people, and ended up just recording separately cos of the bleed and maybe phase issues?

the guitar and singer are an unknown unfortunately (sorry)



anyway,,,,there are a few threads about this, which i've read, but my question's slightly more specific,

out of my mics what would you use??

Rode nt1a
Shure sm81 x2
Shure sm58
Shure sm7b
Sennheiser MD421N x2
Electro Voice 635a x4 (2 of which should have arrived by tomorow)
Electro Voice RE11 (should have arrived tomorrow)
Samson Qkick
Samson Qsnare
Samson Qtom x3
Samson CO2 x2
AKG D112
Marshall MXL 990



i had contemplated some mix of the big dynamics? but what do you think?


also, the room is less than desirable, so i think i'd prefer close miking.


thanks in advance all!
thanks.

It's really hard to say this without knowing you're room and setup:

I'm looking at the SM7b and Rhode in specific. Out of the list, I feel this is the best I personally would work with.

The SM7b, being a radio mic, lends itself to isolated vocals with low handling noise and more body than the SM58 or 421. The 58, like a 57 or a 421 could work on vocals, but it takes alot of massaging to get it to sound right.

The rhode, being a condenser I would use as my main acoustic guitar mic roughly placed along the 12th fret. This will of course pickup alot of the ambience so obviously, you'll have to exercise good judgment with placement.

Bleed is ok provided you make the mics work well together right from the start. Don't wait till the mix.

 

[Steenamaroo]

no no,,,i wudn't do it if it made them uncomfortable! i know that.....although, a point worth making anyway,,thanks..



absolutely LOOVE the 421....they are the old ivory tuchel ones.

i used it the other week on female vocals....<i know that sounds like an odd choice, but she's a fair chanter!>


sadly no one wanted to review the tracks, because my site is warning people of viruses!!<again>


i posted direct links to the mp3s but i guess fear is fear...

 

[Steenamaroo]

Don't wait till the mix.

thanks for all that advice!

 

[LeeRosario]

thanks for all that advice!

Sure thing



Drop me a line with a link to the mix just for shits and giggles. I'll be curious as to how it turns out.

 

[Steenamaroo]

will do,,,it'll be on my site at some point,,complete with out of date google virus warnings

 

[darrin_h2000]

It's really hard to say this without knowing you're room and setup:

I'm looking at the SM7b and Rhode in specific. Out of the list, I feel this is the best I personally would work with.

The SM7b, being a radio mic, lends itself to isolated vocals with low handling noise and more body than the SM58 or 421. The 58, like a 57 or a 421 could work on vocals, but it takes alot of massaging to get it to sound right.

The rhode, being a condenser I would use as my main acoustic guitar mic roughly placed along the 12th fret. This will of course pickup alot of the ambience so obviously, you'll have to exercise good judgment with placement.

Bleed is ok provided you make the mics work well together right from the start. Don't wait till the mix.

The SM7 could be a bit problematic here because he will have to sing louder and the Rode is sensitive and will end up with more of the vocal than usual.

I usually embrace the bleed and use whatever sounds best on vocals and guitar anyway...and try to not factor the bleed into it.

 

[Steenamaroo]

ok, so i'm thinkin, if he's a loud singer,,,go with the rode on guitar, positioned to minimise bleed, and the sm7 or 421 for vocals, depending which suits better..


if he's a whisperer, what do you think of rode on vocals and an 81/2 81s on guitar?


no matter what happens i'm gona throw the 635as up as room mics,,,,purely because they arrive tomorrow morning and i wanna play with them..

most likely wont use their recorded sound but who knows.......

 

[darrin_h2000]

2x SM81 on guitar and which ever suits his vocal the best...probubly the dynamic...only a few of my condensers beat the SM7 or the MD421 on a mans voice.

 

[LeeRosario]

if he's a whisperer, what do you think of rode on vocals and an 81/2 81s on guitar?

ehhhhhhh....

I think the 81s are better for reinforcement in this case. But of course, I could be full of shit. I dunno, I personally don't like the 81 as a main mic.

I always try to go for the one mic that will capture everything in the guitar. Even to the point where I'll tape off the floor so the singer doesn't move from the perfect spot.

The idea would be to have that perfect guitar right off the bat. A nice and up close sound with a bit of the room ambiance. Good low end, with a nice attack on the strings without sounding too brittle or harsh. You shouldn't have to fix the acoustic much later on.

I can only assume the combination of where you put the singer in the room, what kind of crazy contraption you may choose to build (homemade gobo) and where you put that mic, will give you a good acoustic guitar. He could end up in the bath tub for all we know.

Whatever it takes to make it sound good, right?

The SM7 could be a bit problematic here because he will have to sing louder and the Rode is sensitive and will end up with more of the vocal than usual.

I usually embrace the bleed and use whatever sounds best on vocals and guitar anyway...and try to not factor the bleed into it.

True. What's cool about this setup is the ability to swap the two if it ends up coming to that. I've used both on acoustic and vocals, and they both do well I think. I'm thinking SM7B on vocals only because of my tendency to compress vocals later. I mean it does good enough capturing nuance. I guess it's up to the singer at that point.

 

[Steenamaroo]

well,,,,plenty of ideas there,

thanks guys. i'll post up some links when i'm done.

 

[darrin_h2000]

The 2xSM81s in an XY at the twelth fret will make that guitar sound bigger and that goes a long way when its just the man and the guitar...true there are better sets of SDCs for that but they were the only ones listed

 

[Steenamaroo]

apart from the samson co1s? but i'll assume you passed them by.

 

[darrin_h2000]

I did...sorry...but Id still pick the SM81s over them...Ive heard that the AT4041s are the best for this rating as high as the Neumann options at 4 times the price...Id like to buy a pair if I can.

 

[Steenamaroo]

aye,AT mics are something i'd be interested in looking into..

heard great reviews,but i've never ever used one!!

a few figure 8s wouldn't go a miss in my arsenal(i have none at al)

spendin all my money on dynamics at the mo tho,,,i think i've developed an unhealthy passion

 

[darrin_h2000]

aye,AT mics are something i'd be interested in looking into..

heard great reviews,but i've never ever used one!!

a few figure 8s wouldn't go a miss in my arsenal(i have none at al)

spendin all my money on dynamics at the mo tho,,,i think i've developed an unhealthy passion

Me and you both...lol...last count I had 41 mics...and that is after selling 16 of them a few weeks ago.

 

[Ronan]

I usually embrace the bleed and use whatever sounds best on vocals and guitar anyway...and try to not factor the bleed into it.

I do not mind the bleed, its the phase that drives me nuts.

Dig the 421. Mine does not get much use on vocals but tons of tom work and occasional electric guitar.