Recording a Line Level Device

[mark4man]

People,

I know we've visited this subject before, but I've added a new piece of equipment to my project studio (a Focusrite Twin Trak Pro channel strip)...& was hoping it might make a difference in the S/N ratio in the recorded signal.

When I record my Roland synth module, I'm real lucky if I can generate a signal strength of -18dB. What I normally used to do was record at that level; & then normalize the track. (& I used to get busted on for this process...but then, never really noticed an ugly amount of noise in doing so, even when recording in 16-Bit.)

So, now that I can add quality preamplification in the chain, am I better off boosting the synth with the Focusrite (in terms of S/N ratio)?

I realize I should try both methods...& compare the results (which I intend to do), but was also curious how other members solved the low signal problem when recording line level devices.)

(& I think I'll probably be much better off with the preamp, but was also wondering if normalization is as bad as everyone says it is.)

Thanks,

mark4man

 

[moskus]

So, now that I can add quality preamplification in the chain, am I better off boosting the synth with the Focusrite (in terms of S/N ratio)?

I'm not quite sure. If the absolute max volume you can get out of the synth is -18 dB, I would start to think that maybe there's something wrong with your soundcard input settings?

I've not had any problems with recording "line out instruments", but if I'm using a mic (or whatever), I always boost the volume at the source.

 

[karyoker]

but was also wondering if normalization is as bad as everyone says it is.)

After normalizing immediately do a -3db process that way you have "room" to add efx etc.....

 

[moskus]

After normalizing immediately do a -3db process that way you have "room" to add efx etc.....

It's only that normalizing should be forbidden by law...

 

[karyoker]

AAHHHHHH but Moskus..........Prohibition Dont Work....

 

[mark4man]

moskus & karyoker,

Well...that's a lesson learned.

The Focusrite sucks as a line level preamp. It has lousy gain & tons of spurious noise.

My comparison went as follows:

I normally run the JV-1010 through an ISO Xformer (to eliminate the hiss); & directly into inputs 1/2 of my AI (Layla 24/96.) With that setup, I recorded a nice piano patch (leaving a long blank intro to test the noise afterward.) It recorded like it normally does, with peaks between -24dB & -18dB; & then I normalized. The noise at the blank intro (after normalization) measured about -72dB.

Then I ran the outputs of the ISO Xformer through the Focusrite; & set the gain up to give me a recorded signal at the same strength as the normalized track. With that, the noise level at the blank intro measured about -66dB...14dB more noise (&...I had to push the preamp to get to that level. I could cut back on the gain & throw in compression to get me there, but the noise was as bad; & I didn't like the punchy sound of compressed piano.)

I'm staying with my old method.

Thanks,

mark4man


BTW - & I still haven't heard why normalization is so bad.

Also:

If the absolute max volume you can get out of the synth is -18 dB, I would start to think that maybe there's something wrong with your soundcard input settings?

Nah...they're all like that (synths...notorious for low gain.)

 

[crosstudio]

normalizing is bad simply because you can't take it back.

all you are really doing is increasing the clip volume, but you can't take it back.

so why not just increase the TRIM control, and if you realize that you need more headroom, just decrease the TRIM.

 

[Qwerty]

You're talking about the trim on the track control here, right?

If so, won't that just add the same amount of make-up gain and therefore bring out the hiss to the same degree as through the Focusrite?

Also, using the TRIM control impacts on the use of stuff in the FX bin, ie. everything gets a hotter level and therefore reacts differently compared to a neutral trim setting. Granted if this is a new track that is not a concern.

Would the use of an active DI help here? OK, you don't need the impedance converter but the active circuit transformer would lift the signal hitting the sound card, I think... At least it reacts this way with stuff I have plugged through mine just for fucking about's sake.

They cost S.F.A. - Buy from a local store with a good returns policy and be careful opening up the packaging.

Might be worth a go for ya?

Q.

 

[mark4man]

crosstudio,

Thanks. I think I'm just going to sell the channel strip & go to an A.R.T. (tube based) preamp...to try that next (in amping up the synth output signal.) That's what I wanted to do in the first damn place...but I talked myself out of it when I stumbled across the Focusrite at Guitar Center...& I got it without knowing anything about it's line level capabilities, to boot.

BTW - How you been, man? You still in DC?


Qwerty,

Would the use of an active DI help here? OK, you don't need the impedance converter but the active circuit transformer would lift the signal hitting the sound card, I think... At least it reacts this way with stuff I have plugged through mine just for fucking about's sake.

I've ran it (synth output) through a step-up (Ebtech Line Level Shifter) impedance matching Xformer before...& only picked up a few decibels in gain. (But, then again...since transformers work via open couplings, that means any boost would be a hiss free one.) I think the reason I stopped was because it colored the sound somewhat...but I'll try it again, thanks.

mark4man

 

[mixsit]

After normalizing immediately do a -3db process that way you have "room" to add efx etc.....

Why not just do a single trim adjustment rather than two (destructive no less) processes?
The minimalist in me coming out here.
Wayne

 

[karyoker]

I rarely normalize anymore and even if I do it's on a clone track in the first mix. All my trackings have the original tracks saved in ***1. All subsequent mixing and mastering doesnt destroy them.. So when I screw up ... I do that enuff....

But after years of setting rf, video, and audio levels in broacast for distribution amps, limiters, processing amps and such and having to set all of them at 0 db at some point ....
Normalizing still tempts the h**l out of me.... I guess its because I cant measure what I'm adjusting accurately....I need to lookin at a scope or something Now I cant see or hear very good anymore so I need all the aids I can get....