Record on *ancient* medium?

Digital:
Dell computer $80 (already had a monitor)
External HD $40
Delta 1010LT interface $150
Memory upgrade to 4G of RAM $30
Reaper $40
Toontrack EZ Drummer $70

Total: $410

Analog:
Fostex R8 reel to reel (8 track) $260
Yamaha M216 mixer $100
Peavey Addverb III $65
Roland SDE-2000 (delay) $65
DOD 31 band graphic EQ $55
2nd DOD 31 band graphic EQ $50
Yamaha SPX90 $115 (and this died, so it's not usable right now)
Fostex 3050 (delay) $60
DOD R825 compressor $50
2nd DOD R825 compressor $40
DBX 166 compressor $35 (my best deal yet)
Rack accessories (I built my own mixing desk with built-in rack from the wood of my father's childhood bed) $20
49 point patchbay $30
32 point patchbay $30
2nd 32 point patchbay $30
1/4" tape for Fostex R8 $110 (so far---this is obviously an ongoing thing)
Connecting cables - I really don't know for sure, but it's at least $200, and that's with making many of them

Total: $1315

Very interesting to see this... I have compiled a list similar to yours as I too have a digital rig (slowly selling off) and a completely analog rig.

Your digital set-up was cheaper because you were happy to mix all ITB and use plugins instead of outboard gear. Say you had exactly the same digital setup but used an 8 track portastudio instead of the reel to reel, that would probably make your analog rig now more portable, convenient, quicker, easier and cheaper than the digital rig. So very easily things can change depending on your priorities. All analog studios aren't always as difficult, expensive and out of reach as some people claim they are.

How about RESALE value? This is where the analog studio will be much, much better.

I had a full list somewhere but here's some of the main items (current sale value in brackets)

Fostex R8: free ($200) - seller thought it was broken but easy fix!
Fostex R8: $200 ($400) - hardly used/looks brand new
Tascam 32: $300 ($300) - perfect working order/looks new
Fostex 350 mixer: $40 (sold for $120)
Fostex 812 mixer: $250 ($300)
Fostex 4030 synchronizer: $35 including cost to make custom cables (~$100)

I can sell any of my outboard compressors, EQ's and reverbs and get at least what I paid for them.

TAPES!! I paid less than $5 per 7" reel of 1/4" tape a couple of years ago and still have sealed boxes of Quantegy 457, Ampex 456 (non sticky years), BASF SM911 that are all selling at about $20 per reel (crazy eBay prices). Paid about $300 for those 3 boxes and could sell for well over $1000.

Roland VS-1680: $550 (trying to sell for $250 and struggling!)
Kaoss Pad: $450 ugh! (sold for $300)
Dell Laptop: $1200 in 2008 ($200?)

I didn't get into analog recording because it's cheap either! :)
 
Very interesting to see this... I have compiled a list similar to yours as I too have a digital rig (slowly selling off) and a completely analog rig.

Your digital set-up was cheaper because you were happy to mix all ITB and use plugins instead of outboard gear. Say you had exactly the same digital setup but used an 8 track portastudio instead of the reel to reel, that would probably make your analog rig now more portable, convenient, quicker, easier and cheaper than the digital rig. So very easily things can change depending on your priorities. All analog studios aren't always as difficult, expensive and out of reach as some people claim they are.

How about RESALE value? This is where the analog studio will be much, much better.

I had a full list somewhere but here's some of the main items (current sale value in brackets)

Fostex R8: free ($200) - seller thought it was broken but easy fix!
Fostex R8: $200 ($400) - hardly used/looks brand new
Tascam 32: $300 ($300) - perfect working order/looks new
Fostex 350 mixer: $40 (sold for $120)
Fostex 812 mixer: $250 ($300)
Fostex 4030 synchronizer: $35 including cost to make custom cables (~$100)

I can sell any of my outboard compressors, EQ's and reverbs and get at least what I paid for them.

TAPES!! I paid less than $5 per 7" reel of 1/4" tape a couple of years ago and still have sealed boxes of Quantegy 457, Ampex 456 (non sticky years), BASF SM911 that are all selling at about $20 per reel (crazy eBay prices). Paid about $300 for those 3 boxes and could sell for well over $1000.

Roland VS-1680: $550 (trying to sell for $250 and struggling!)
Kaoss Pad: $450 ugh! (sold for $300)
Dell Laptop: $1200 in 2008 ($200?)

I didn't get into analog recording because it's cheap either! :)

You got some good analog deals! :)

You're absolutely right about resale value. Analog has digital beat all over with that. Any time I buy a piece of gear for my analog rig, I can rest assured that I'll usually at least get my money back if I sell it, and many times I've gotten a good deal more.

And the portastudio is an option as well. It wouldn't have the tape and maintenance costs, although the actual machine (8 track cassette) will still probably run you a few hundred (at least that's what the 688 is fetching on ebay these days).

My whole point was that, if someone were starting from scratch with the recording gear, it would be much cheaper to get a comparable digital rig (I mean feature-wise, we don't need to debate the sound issue) than an analog one. You can buy used digital gear too (got my CPU for $110 when you include the RAM upgrade). Actually, buying used digital is a much better bargain than buying used analog, as your resale values demonstrate. You just have to be sure you buy what you're going to use, obviously. The Dell CPU I bought for $80 would have probably cost near $1K when it was new only a few years earlier.

My two lists were assuming that someone was starting from scratch with the recording gear. If that's the case, as my list demonstrates, you can spend about $400 (and I included EZ Drummer, which isn't really recording gear; it's software) and have a modest digital recording rig.

If you were starting from scratch with analog, $400 would barely cover 8 tracks of recording (probably not even that if you're talking R2R in good, ready-to-go condition, not to mention the cost of tape). Then you'd still have the mixer, signal processors, dynamic processors, cables, etc.

And also, this is talking about a "one-man band" situation. Obviously, if you were wanting to record more than two tracks at once or so, you'd most likely need a mixer in the digital rig as well (or several external pres obviously).

Again, I'm not arguing for digital. I love analog and much prefer the process of recording to tape. But I don't stick my head in the sand with regards to comparative issues. If people want to argue about the sound of analog and digital until the cows come home, they can. But when people try to say that editing is just as easy on analog, or that analog isn't any more expensive than digital (in a home studio context), I can't back things like that up. That's just simply not true.

And when people quote new digital prices and against used analog gear, that's not fair. Obviously, you can't buy a lot of new analog gear anymore, but you can buy used digital gear, and you can get it for a steal usually too.

That's my only thing. Digital has its thing, but I prefer analog --- but not because it's easier, quicker, or cheaper! :)
 
Last edited:
It's not going to be easy to directly compare apples to apples. But for US$400 I bought a Teac 22-4 and a Teac 5 board. Counting or not counting the Teac 5 (which cost me US$150) I picked up a Delta 66 (the card out of a bin with a bunch of soundblasters, it was the only one that said ICE1712 on the chipset.....) and a decent CPU from FreeGeek for about $88, and then bought the breakout box direct from M-Audio for another $50. I think the Delta 66 new would have been on the order of $100 or so. I didn't buy any software, opting to use 1.3 beta version of 64Studio, which is an all in one Linux solution.

The Teac 5 (an old board admittedly) is a nice front end to a four track like the Delta 66, so directly comparing these two, the digital rig was $100 cheaper. But, I chose to skip Windows altogether. Add in teh cost of software and you're at or above the 22-4 cost. If I remove the Teac 5 (not necessary if I'm going to mix in the box) I'd need a mic preamp and possibly a DI for the Delta 66. One of those ART starved plate tube thingy's will do both for around $75 or so.

So:

Teac 22-4 $250
Teac 5 $150
Blank tape $30 (basing on the now out of stock price for a reel of 457)

$430

Delta 66 $58
CPU $80
Monitor $0 (freebie from office mate)
Preamp $75


For me the software cost was the price of a blank cd-rom and amortized my bandwidth cost for download. But that involved a choice to use Linux over Windows. Could probably figure another $100 or so for software depending on the Windows version. which puts the comparable digital rig at $313.

I suppose I need to add the cost of somethin glike an Alesis microverb ($30) to the analog rig. So in this scenario the Analog setup is about $130 more overall, and I'm assuming I'm using only plugins on the digital rig, and the preamps on the Teac 5 for the analog. I'm not including the cost of cables, as both the Delta and the 22-4 are 4 in 4 out, and I had a bunch of CRT monitors handed down to me.

Now OTOH, you can get some sweet deals on yesterday's digital gear. I bought an ISIS MAxi Studio (16 bit with 8 in 4 out breakout box and a decent on board midi synth) for a whopping $5 off ebay, and I think I bought another one of those earlier for about $20 that was NIB...

After all my rambling, I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. I agree an out of the box digital solution can be had much much cheaper than analog. However, I think the cost of digital can be understated at times, depending on your goals.
 
Last edited:
It's not going to be easy to directly compare apples to apples. But for US$400 I bought a Teac 22-4 and a Teac 5 board. Counting or not counting the Teac 5 (which cost me US$150) I picked up a Delta 66 (the card out of a bin with a bunch of soundblasters, it was the only one that said ICE1712 on the chipset.....) and a decent CPU from FreeGeek for about $88, and then bought the breakout box direct from M-Audio for another $50. I think the Delta 66 new would have been on the order of $100 or so. I didn't buy any software, opting to use 1.3 beta version of 64Studio, which is an all in one Linux solution.

The Teac 5 (an old board admittedly) is a nice front end to a four track like the Delta 66, so directly comparing these two, the digital rig was $100 cheaper. But, I chose to skip Windows altogether. Add in teh cost of software and you're at or above the 22-4 cost. If I remove the Teac 5 (not necessary if I'm going to mix in the box) I'd need a mic preamp and possibly a DI for the Delta 66. One of those ART starved plate tube thingy's will do both for around $75 or so.

So:

Teac 22-4 $250
Teac 5 $150
Blank tape $30 (basing on the now out of stock price for a reel of 457)

$430

Delta 66 $58
CPU $80
Monitor $0 (freebie from office mate)
Preamp $75


For me the software cost was the price of a blank cd-rom and amortized my bandwidth cost for download. But that involved a choice to use Linux over Windows. Could probably figure another $100 or so for software depending on the Windows version. which puts the comparable digital rig at $313.

I suppose I need to add the cost of somethin glike an Alesis microverb ($30) to the analog rig. So in this scenario the Analog setup is about $130 more overall, and I'm assuming I'm using only plugins on the digital rig, and the preamps on the Teac 5 for the analog. I'm not including the cost of cables, as both the Delta and the 22-4 are 4 in 4 out, and I had a bunch of CRT monitors handed down to me.

Now OTOH, you can get some sweet deals on yesterday's digital gear. I bought an ISIS MAxi Studio (16 bit with 8 in 4 out breakout box and a decent on board midi synth) for a whopping $5 off ebay, and I think I bought another one of those earlier for about $20 that was NIB...

After all my rambling, I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. I agree an out of the box digital solution can be had much much cheaper than analog. However, I think the cost of digital can be understated at times, depending on your goals.

While I get what you're saying here, I don't think those two rigs would be "comparable," feature-wise.

With your analog rig, you had one processor (the Microverb). And you had 4 tracks.

With the digital rig, you'd have tons of tracks (I won't say unlimited because it's however many your CPU can handle---though you can freeze or render tracks to work around that), access to tons of freeware perfectly decent-sounding plug-ins (definitely on the level of the Microverb or better IMO), and you could use several of them (depending on the plug and your CPU specs) at once.

You'd also have unlimited compression plugs (again, depending on your specs, but my CPU easily handles many at once) and parametric EQs at your disposal, whereas you don't have any in your analog rig. I don't know how good of a deal you can find, but my 4 channels of analog compression cost me about $140, and that's including a DBX 166 at $35, which was the steal of the century, and the cheapest hardware parametric I've seen is about $60 for a three-channel (I think).

And again, there's the cost of tape for the 22-4 and/or the maintenance/adjustment/tools, depending on if you want to do it yourself.

Like I said, I'm all about viva la analog, but there's just comparison cost-wise when starting from scratch with regards to comparable features. The whole plug-in world has just made that argument obsolete, IMHO.

Of course, as you said, this is assuming you want to mix ITB. And yes, that's what I'm assuming, because I'm pretty sure that's what the vast majority of beginning recordists working with a CPU and DAW do these days. Eventually, they may get a mixer and start working that way, but ... a CPU, audio interface, Reaper, maybe a pre (and obviously mics and instruments and monitors, which don't count because they're necessary in both worlds), and you're good to go with a system that can produce some excellent results in the right hands (notwithstanding the A vs. D sound debate).

To get a comparable system in R2R land, you need, at minimum:

R2R
Tape
Mixer (with built-in pres)
effects processor
compressor (2 channels at least)
Parametric EQ (not that you necessarily need it, but to make it somewhat comparable to the digital rig)
Rack space
Cables

And, of course, this is assuming you already have a mixdown deck! We hadn't even really talked about that.

So, I just don't think anyone can logically argue that, especially if you buy the CPU used (like and did), the two systems are anywhere close in price. And, to be honest, this analog system is really limited compared to the features of the digital rig (way more tracks, way more effects, way more dynamics/EQ, etc.).

Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing, and I actually enjoy working with those limitations, which is another reason I like working with analog: it's finite, so you can only spend so much time experimenting before you need to make a decision about something.

But I personally think it does someone an injustice to lead them to believe that startup analog and digital rigs are comparable price-wise. I think if someone goes into analog thinking that, they're likely to be very disappointed and possibly give up. Some things need to be accepted: in the home studio realm, digital is just cheaper than analog, period.

But there are many other reasons to still use analog of course, and that's why I still do (and I assume why most of y'all do as well). I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they would use digital, but it's too expensive. I have known several people say that about analog though.
 
So, I just don't think anyone can logically argue that, especially if you buy the CPU used (like and did), the two systems are anywhere close in price. And, to be honest, this analog system is really limited compared to the features of the digital rig (way more tracks, way more effects, way more dynamics/EQ, etc.).

Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing, and I actually enjoy working with those limitations, which is another reason I like working with analog: it's finite, so you can only spend so much time experimenting before you need to make a decision about something.

But I personally think it does someone an injustice to lead them to believe that startup analog and digital rigs are comparable price-wise. I think if someone goes into analog thinking that, they're likely to be very disappointed and possibly give up. Some things need to be accepted: in the home studio realm, digital is just cheaper than analog, period.

We aren't disagreeing. My main point is that the cost of analog tends to be over stated (although I think that is perhaps many of us just have a knack for finding and/or negotiating good deals, otherwise we couldn't afford this......:-) ) and the TCO for digital understated.

I'm also not entirely convinced that some algorithm applied to a wave form really sounds as good as running AC across the grid of a tube! If you want to use outboard gear in a digital context, the cost starts to increase quite a bit, to get the necessary additional digital I/O. (Unless of course, you look around for yesterdays gear, or settle for something like the much maligned ADA8000.)

Fair enough and I'll concede even at that point, digital is cheaper:

MSR-16 $750
1/2" tape $50-60/unit
Service $150 easily

*and I'm not including the cost of shipping said 80 pound MSR-16 as opposed to the 19" rack mounted A16.

Creamware A16 $300
Creamware TDAT $75
FreekBox $80
NOS Windows 98 $50

Choice of plugins or outboard effects with the TDAT system. All the above had on the secondary market. 16 tracks I/O with either system. So, more flexibility with the Digital, and same ability to mix/modify outboard at about half the cost.
 
".....Like I said, I'm all about viva la analog, but there's just comparison cost-wise when starting from scratch with regards to comparable features. The whole plug-in world has just made that argument obsolete, IMHO...."

"....So, I just don't think anyone can logically argue that, especially if you buy the CPU used (like and did), the two systems are anywhere close in price. And, to be honest, this analog system is really limited compared to the features of the digital rig (way more tracks, way more effects, way more dynamics/EQ, etc.).

But I personally think it does someone an injustice to lead them to believe that startup analog and digital rigs are comparable price-wise. I think if someone goes into analog thinking that, they're likely to be very disappointed and possibly give up. Some things need to be accepted: in the home studio realm, digital is just cheaper than analog, period."

I forgot to mention that I record differently than you, whilst you are a 1 man band, I record albums for 5-7 piece bands and lately we have been recording live to tape with minimal overdubs. When I sync the R8's I get 14 tracks simultaneous recording which I usually use 12 all at once then the last two for overdubs like backing vox or additional guitars or something.

I think a digital setup with 14 track simultaneous recording would be much more expensive than my setup (and more difficult to use, and less portable!)... I doubt an $80 computer could handle 14 tracks simultaneous recording at 24bit and would be less reliable than my setup. I started on 4 track cassette then upgraded to the Roland and it was too tedious for me and still didn't have the features I needed to record a full band live the way I wanted to.
 
I forgot to mention that I record differently than you, whilst you are a 1 man band, I record albums for 5-7 piece bands and lately we have been recording live to tape with minimal overdubs. When I sync the R8's I get 14 tracks simultaneous recording which I usually use 12 all at once then the last two for overdubs like backing vox or additional guitars or something.

I think a digital setup with 14 track simultaneous recording would be much more expensive than my setup (and more difficult to use, and less portable!)... I doubt an $80 computer could handle 14 tracks simultaneous recording at 24bit and would be less reliable than my setup. I started on 4 track cassette then upgraded to the Roland and it was too tedious for me and still didn't have the features I needed to record a full band live the way I wanted to.


Recording many tracks at once would certainly level the playing field for sure. I do one-man band stuff sometimes, but I have a band as well and have just started trying to record an album on my Fostex R8 when I discovered I was having slow playback issues (discussed in my other thread). Though I've recorded full bands in the past (with ADATs back in the day), it was always with combined/borrowed equipment to make it happen. This is the first time, after recording for nearly 25 years, that I've actually had a decently stocked analog studio all myself that can somewhat handle that situation (albeit with only 8 tracks).

So you sync two R8's, huh? Does that work pretty smoothly? Do you just need the Fostex 4030 synchronizer to do that? What mixing board do you use?
 
recently recorded in a pro studio( for my 15 year old daughter) to 24 track 2 inch tape. was able to find abrand new roll of scotch 206 tape for about 100 bucks. just wanted to give her the experience of analog before it's gone. came out great!. there's no way way to get these sounds via digital. especially the drums. of course i'm broke now....
 
recently recorded in a pro studio( for my 15 year old daughter) to 24 track 2 inch tape. was able to find abrand new roll of scotch 206 tape for about 100 bucks. just wanted to give her the experience of analog before it's gone. came out great!. there's no way way to get these sounds via digital. especially the drums. of course i'm broke now....

That's a steal on that tape! Where'd you find it?
 
found it on ebay. this guy had 1 roll of 2 inch scotch 206 and 2 rolls of scotch 207. non sticky tapes. don't leave much residue on the heads. did some research to calibrate the machine to the tape( easy to find.. + 3db) and recorded very hot. 3 songs on a studer 827 and an ssl 4056 console. band was prepared and we finished in 10 hrs including overdubs. about 32 tracks per song. saturate the tape you won't be disappointed!
 
So you sync two R8's, huh? Does that work pretty smoothly? Do you just need the Fostex 4030 synchronizer to do that? What mixing board do you use?

I don't want to jinx it but it's been working rock solid. One machine as I mentioned is in as new condition and had very little use but the other is a pretty well used machine... still they sync up within seconds and stay locked for the whole tape!

Yes just the Fostex 4030 and had to make the two cables to connect the tape machines to the synchronizer as I couldn't find track down any original cables!

I use the Fostex 812 as the mixer. I used to use a Fostex 350 but got the bigger/better/newer 812 since the old 350 was only 8 tracks and the channels started playing up (I think it was due to old caps in the PS).
 
Back
Top