Record Live? Or Separate?

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Brian01

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I would really like to record live (minus vocals), but our bass player is a bit off at times. All of us are one time or another of course. I just wanted some opinions from others who record.


It seems we could get a perfect recording adding the bass etc later, but some of the best recordings seem to be live. Nirvana did Nevermind and In Eutro like that, Stevie Ray Vaughn aparently did Texas Flood in 2 hours or something like that. It seems like a lot abby Road was live. What have been your experiences?

We could always record the bass Direct and overdub later I suppose. We dont want that overprocessed "Studio" sound, but we want things to be clean as well...
 
Personally I try to isolate instruments as much as I reasonably can and track everyone at the same time. Primarily, I want to at least get the drum tracks as well as they can be recorded and if everything else is a keeper then that's just the bonus plan baby. That way I can retrack whatever is sucking. After all, over processed studio sound is better than jammin and suckin sound any day. YMMV.
 
He can play live with you guys. Just run him direct into the board and record him to his own channel. Monitor thru headphones. You can go back in and overdub any new bass lines to fix up his crappy playing.

When people say they record live they are usually not all in the same room with their amps. They usually put the amps in different rooms or isolation booths so they can maintain isolation and overdub whatever needs to be fixed.
 
if the track needs a little live feel for it, sometimes ill mic up the drum kit as normal, but run the guitars through pods and DI the bass, just for the drummer's monitor mix. then, once i have the drums, go back to doing the guitars with the amps , etc..

some drummers prefer this way.
 
Hi there!
I've recently recorded my cousin's band during a garage rehearsal
(They played several Sonic Youth songs). I used 8 tracks only, and I tryed to isolate the instruments without making the boys too unconfortable to play...the results were great...I took advantage of microphones reject, polar patterns and so on...
they played relaxed, just like in their rehearsals... then I brought all that to my computer and we spent a week punching anything necessary (it wasn't too much though) and mixing. I'm really proud of this simple recording of 18 songs... just using smart mic placement...
(We did the vocals live)

Try playing with mics and amps positions, so there is almost no "leakage" between tracks...

Peace...

PC
 
In my opinion, if you're afer the "live sound," the most important things to track live are the bass and the drums. They're supposed to form the backbone / framework while everything else is just filling in the pieces. It is pretty crucial in my experience that the bassist and drummer are watching each other and communicating or you lose the live sound.

I would say no way Jose on overdubbing the bass. If he's off at times, then tell him to practice harder or lay off the Jagermeister shots before the gig. :) If it's just a matter of an errant note here and there, then get used to the editing functions on your recorder of software. Pitch bending can cure a bad note, as can cutting / pasting if it's really noticeable.
 
No, its not the notes, its his sloppy timing, its "barley" on. Its not off, but it kind of trails. When you hear it live its fine, but when its recorded, you want that tight feel. We talked about it and we are going to all practice a lot before we record (mainly for him)

I think your advice of playing it live with the amps in different rooms will work, that way its live but definant sound separation. There is a room we can put the bass cab, and we'll just shame him into being more "ON". If he flubs it we'll just beat him with his own bass until he gets it right.
 
That sounds like a good idea. Intimidation and the fear of pain just might work. I would just drill it in to his head: "You MUST watch the drummer at all times" and if you see his eyes drift away from him, smack him silly a few times or beat him senseless. He has to understand that he and the drummer are to be as one instrument.

I used to have that problem. I experienced delusions that I was Flea, and that my playing should stand out on it's own. Untill someone sat me down and said, "Stop with the fancy-schmancy stuff, simplify, and just play in time with the bass drum."
 
I have tried the "record everything seperate" method before and so far, I'm not impressed. The drummers that I have worked with, mostly younger punk kids, don't hate headphones, but also don't know enough to tell that the cans are screwing their style/sound. I'll record a normally killer drummer and the tracks have tempo issues, control issues, everything. I think it is very hard for a "recording inexperienced drummer" to record with phones. I did a session a few weeks ago and I had the bass player and drummer play together. Although the bass guitar was very low, it was just enough to hear, the tracks came out on time, the drummer played under control, and there was almost no bleed whatsoever.

Ian
 
Yeah good point greg, i found that recording bass and drums at the same is a winner.

I found if i just turned the bass down a bit and cut those real lows i still have good seperation and you can tweaks later, but headphones with a bass DI is the best.
 
Yeah, a trick I like to use is to have the bass player plug in like he would and get a sound from the amp that won't interfere with other drum mics (like low bass/low highs). Then, plug the bass into a direct box and you can take the XLR out direct to a preamp, the bass player can take the Hi-Z out into his amp. He gets to play with the amp, you get a direct bass tone (possible to reamp later), and you get minimal bleed into the drum mics.

Ian
 
Dont you guys use click tracks? Most drummers sound crappy if they cant play to a click.

The good thing about bass players is at least they are disposable. If that guy sucks so bad just go down to GC and find a new one ;)
 
recording without a click track is kind of annoying for those doing computer recording. it is for me at least. it's so much easier to do editing using measures and beats, and if the drums suck, just redo them. if you have a drummer good enough, you can even record the whole thing then re-track the drums. of course some people are all for the natural ebb and flow of a band playing without a click, but it's harder on the engineer. wow, i'm a recording engineer!! yeah, right.

adriano
 
well, for most people, it shouldn't be a problem. i only use a click if i think the drummer can do it, or if he's not staying in time.

i personally like to get the drum track right, rather than having to go through editing on tape, pro tools, whatever.

the only other thing i use click for is if i know im gonna have to drop in fills here and there and remove other fills. then, a click track is pretty vital in order for the fills to slot into place.

i also find that click track leakage can be a problem sometimes, especially with drummers who like loud clicks. sometimes the condensors might pick it up on quiet passages.
 
texroad kill

actaully, most drummers dont like playing to click on the basis that it doesn't let them play as well as they would without the restriction.

-Romesh
 
click is VERY useful though...

You are sure that the song is entirely in tempo and you can edit anything you want later, or set up effects in perfect tempo (delays, flangers...)

I prefer a drummer that can use click, just as a tool, a good drummer should't be intimidated by a metronome...

Peace...

PC
 
oh yes, definitely, click does have it's uses, but you need to be careful where you're using it or you can kill a song.

sometimes a song can sound great when it's timing is not strict, especially slower songs.

basically, if you're gonna use click, make sure your drummer is cool with it and he can still play with good expression and confidence. some drummers feel uncomfertable with click
 
Usually any drummer who is good enough not to need a click can play with one. It's the guys who need it that cant.

I wouldn't hire a drummer who couldnt play to one. I'm too much of a DAW nazi. If you want to remix the song later and change the parts around it sure is easier with a locked tempo. What many people call expressive drumming is often just an excuse for undisciplined drumming.
 
I found that even without a click most editing can be done,but i only have the time for my babys.
 
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