Record it hot!

All I said was that I record as loud as possible without clipping. I usually get my peaks to about -1dB at the most just to be safe. Is that wrong? (hint: no)

then I said I use psp vintage warmer for a compressor/limiter. Are compressors not used in the production of music? (hint: meat)
 
The Seifer said:
All I said was that I record as loud as possible without clipping. I usually get my peaks to about -1dB at the most just to be safe. Is that wrong? (hint: no)
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Not wrong, simply an ill-informed choice to make.......

You also went into that whole "toneness" nonsense......... and "nonsense" is being extremely polite...
 
Well when I record things quiet the noise from my fake amp or from a mic is too loud, and will just get louder if I boost the signal after it is recorded. Recording loud and using a noise gate triple slams my noise floor in the face and I'll only have to turn down the tracks once they are recorded instead of boosting them (and the noise).

I probably described it poorly but I'm totally right trust me
 
The Seifer said:
Well when I record things quiet the noise from my fake amp or from a mic is too loud, and will just get louder if I boost the signal after it is recorded. Recording loud and using a noise gate triple slams my noise floor in the face and I'll only have to turn down the tracks once they are recorded instead of boosting them (and the noise).
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Help me here, Seif. :D I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. I really am. But this is just nonsense.
 
Re: Re: Re: Record it hot!

Son of Mixerman said:
Outside of clipping issues there are other issues like finding the sweetspot of a preamp. Some preamps may not be clipping but the amount of distortion induced from pushing it TOO hard is worse.
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This is a great point -- and something too many people seem to ignore.

Most any piece of gear has a sweet spot or range where it sounds best. And even if there aren't any distortion issues if/when you crank something past this range . . . it may not perform in a linear fashion. Most people who complain about Mackie mixers probably don't understand; they're just not meant to be pushed or they start sounding a little thin. So track a little quieter with them and all should be right in your world.

Another example: Marshall (and many other) guitar amps are meant to be cranked. If you live in an apartment with thin walls, then you might want to re-evaluate your options.

It's the same way with anything else -- everything has it's ideal range.
 
There isn't that much noise. I just like to kill the little bit that there may be.

Anyway, this has been discussed by the regulars here before and it was agreed upon that recording something that peaks at -6dB is better than recording something that peaks at -20 and then boosting the shit and piss out of it in the mix.

You guys are grasping at things to call me on simply because I'm the guy to hate at the moment, and its pretty obvious.
 
chessrock said:
Help me here, Seif. :D I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. I really am. But this is just nonsense.
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He's talking about signal-to-noise ratio. It's like when you used to record your LP's to cassette tape...the tape hiss is constant, but the signal from the record player was variable....thus a low recording level resulted in unacceptable amount of hiss, but if you raised the input level, the hiss wasn't as noticable.

Of course, it depends on the source of the noise...in this analogy the LP pops and cracks are always at the same ratio to the music level.
 
The Seifer said:
it was agreed upon that recording something that peaks at -6dB is better than recording something that peaks at -20 and then boosting the shit and piss out of it in the mix.
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Yea, but you just said you like to go -1 db below clipping. You keep changing your story.

You guys are grasping at things to call me on simply because I'm the guy to hate at the moment, and its pretty obvious.
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No one hates you. It's just that you're not that experienced with this stuff and aren't very knowlegable yet. But you seem to like to prend you are. Or maybe you actually believe you are.

This isn't a knock -- someday you might actually be an expert at this stuff. Who knows? But not now -- not today. At this stage, you're pretty much a newb. So just sit back, chill out and learn. Take notes. Be a student. It takes a while to figure out a lot of this stuff. Some guys have to devote 5-10 years at this stuff before they have any sort of clue.

Right now, you'd serve yourself better by asking lots of questions, rather than giving incorrect answers based on undeveloped knowlege/experience.
 
jfrog said:
He's talking about signal-to-noise ratio. It's like when you used to record your LP's to cassette tape...the tape hiss is constant
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Yea, but we're not talking about an analog-based medium where noise floor should be an issue. If your digitally-based recording medium has a noise floor that is problematic, then something is wrong with it and you need to check your warranty.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Yes - I could... but it would be a huge stretch to get down to your level....

Apparently, you wrote the book on idiocy......

:rolleyes: moron.......
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Yeah, well, I'm rubber and your glue, everything you say bounces off me and sticks to you. Seriously, if you guys can't fight nice, then take it where it belongs, in the microphone forum.:D
 
The Seifer said:
except I was right
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No, you weren't. And that's why people have a problem with you, in case you were wondering. Not only do you choose not to listen and learn, but you have this inherent need to be right about things.

I don't really give a crap, frankly, but it's just going to take you a lot longer to figure things out than it would someone who was humble, willing to learn, and not afraid of being wrong. With your current attitude, it's likely that you'll never learn and you'll always be stuck at an amateur level, which is too bad.
 
Give me a break. Whether my tracks peak at -6dB or -1dB is negligable. The signal coming out of my fake amp or my preamp does not clip at -1dB and is not distorted in any way, so you had better give me an incredibly good reason why -6dB is better than -1dB.


p.s.

if you do I'll disagree with you anyway
 
The Seifer said:
if you do I'll disagree with you anyway
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That's come to be expected.

What you really need to do is go back and read some of the previous posts. Particularly the ones by Bluebear and Son of Mixerman.

No one is saying -6 db is better than -20 or -1 or whatever. What we're saying is that everything is unique, and you have to work within the gain staging of the equipment you have.

If your mic preamp performs better and more linear at higher gains, then by all means crank it. Most consumer-grade mic pres perform more linear at more modest gain ranges. Everything is different. There are no absolutes -- -6 db might be right and -20 might be right, depending on the rest of your chain.

But I would find it extremely unusual for a consumer-grade mic pre or "fake amp" as you put it, to perform quieter at higher gains. That would be very unusual. But then, you're not by any stretches a very normal dude, so it wouldn't surprize me if it were the case. :D

Main thing is noise floor on a digital recording medium should not be a concern, and if it is then there's something wrong with it. Plain and simple.
 
The Seifer said:
Give me a break. Whether my tracks peak at -6dB or -1dB is negligable. The signal coming out of my fake amp or my preamp does not clip at -1dB and is not distorted in any way, so you had better give me an incredibly good reason why -6dB is better than -1dB.


p.s.

if you do I'll disagree with you anyway
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Hey shitbird, I thought it was stated that if all your tracks are at -1db, you will end up slamming the master buss.



[Edit]
Oh, I see your gay site is down. Isn't that too bad.
 
...which is why you would either turn down the master bus or the individual tracks to an acceptable level within the mix, effectively killing any signal-to-noise ratio whatever but still having the tracks at the level that they need to be.

My site will return.
 
All this talk about -1db, -6db, etc. Ooooh digital .. . . . shit I'm hitting my tape at +6 to +9 all the time, though not always, but sometimes, though not all the time. Tape saturation baby and I hit it so hot it sounds 'warm" baby. If you actually track professionally with good 24 bit converters, as obviously seifart doesn't, you'd realize -1 db is completely impossible and unecessary. I usually am tracking at about -13db because as we all know those -1db peaks we spent all this time adjusting for 30 tracks (we are actually micing a full band with multiple mics on the same source right?) will go out the window when the red light comes on. Save some headroom dudes 'cause paying musicians will get pissed when you lose a take to going over 0db full scale. Returns overloading? huh, must be working on a wackie. Can't adjust the return volume from your multitrack? Shit my console's got loads of headroom on the returns.
 
The Seifer said:
...give me an incredibly good reason why -6dB is better than -1dB.
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How about just quick recap?
-As long as the analog feeding it (I suppose that includes the converters) sounds good at that level.
-If it doesn't mean having to pull all the track levels down below nominal to keep the mix happy.
-You don't mind the extra tension created by riding on the edge of the cliff all the time (for absolutely no benefit on the digital side -no "better resolution").
-Hopefully doesn't lead to 'That was good, but do another one with the level up a bit"
-And "Oops, you didn't tell me you were going to sing louder this time."
-Does it lead to threads like 'What's a good limiter to protect from overs'?
:D
Hell, -18, -6...:p Be happy.
:D
 
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