Record drum in live rehearsal, spills, Dynamic or condenser

[neoblasted]

Hi, im on a tight budget and we try to record the drum when doing rehearsal with my band. I tried to use a Large Supercardioid condenser mic in front of the Drum kit or behing the drum kit (AT3035), the result is awesome when I play alone, but when the guitar play, it is spilling in the condenser, so its ruining the drum sound in the record.

So i was wondering if I could record the drum with 2 Small condensers (recorderman method) and with a Kick mic, without getting too much guitars sound , or use 2 dynamics mics?

Thanks!

 

[mixsit]

When I record bands here at home, goes something like this-
Drums need to be the loudest thing in the room

You know what that means- the amps ain't!
Get'em up in their ears! if they think they need it

Guitar amps go in the other room (standard but I have that option here..)
Bass.. not quite so troublesome as at least the bleed has a chance to fit in with a kit.

Four and a half foot high 'gobo walls' that I can section tight along side of the kit.

Kit mic pair goes somewhat rear, and low -near the drummer- and now they see' the kit from one side, and a big thick bunch on 'nothing from behind them. As well as less room' not being up in the air, more 'skins, less cymbals.

Down side is the ride can be a bit too close.

Run them equal distance to the snare just like the other 'two mic ways, try to 'rotate the left mic 'far from the hat, close to snare as possible.. (work it out..

Pan usually goes 60-70% (this placement is a pretty 'wide view) ..but guess what. It's solid all the way down into mono.


After most of the big stuff is sorted out, maybe a pair up high- call'em 'cymbals and room'.

As always-- 'Loudest thing in the room wins'.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Dynamic or condenser in and of itself doesn't really make a difference. Relative distance from the various sources, relative volume of those sources, and polar pattern and position of the mic are all you have to work with. Well, frequency response can help some, too.

A condenser may be more sensitive overall, but that doesn't really change the relative level (the mix of sounds) at the diaphragm nor what it's going to record. It may have a different polar pattern, which could make a difference, but that's down to individual mic models, not really condenser vs dynamic. A dynamic might not catch as much of the extreme high end, so might help reject cymbals from the guitar mic, but those frequencies probably don't exist in the guitar signal anyway, so it can't likely help in this instance.

 

[witzendoz]

I record a lot of bands playing live together in my studio, I use a lot off screens (gobos) around the guitar amps and I have them setup at 90 degs to the drum kit. I also have some screens around the drum kit up to about tom height and in front of the kick, not too close but there to reduce spill into the drum mics. However I find that reducing the spill at the guitar amp end is best. Also make sure that the guitar and bass amps don't have too much bottom end in the sound as this makes a muddy mess in the spill, I find that a lot guitar players have too much bottom end in their sound anyway and after I clean it up a bit and they get used to it they find it's a much better sound.

I should also point out that I have the drum kit at one end of the room and all the amps at the other as this makes separation easier.

Alan.

 

[GONZO-X]

this is why people build drum booths.

at the very least,
build some gobos, and put those in the best place

there's not a lot you can do to change your situation,
without changing your situation.

some magic mic is not gonna fix it.

 

[neoblasted]

thanks all

 

[bouldersoundguy]

If you don't want bleed you need to isolate the instruments (mic pattern/placement, different rooms, goboes, amp tents, DIs), but then it's not really a rehearsal, it's a recording session. If you want to rehearse out loud you're going to get bleed.

 

[neoblasted]

I did some mistakes the last time I set the mic gain level on the mixer for all the mics, (I still learn everyday!), I just read about how to set gain level on the mixer to get the minimum necessary for each mics, I was setting the gain the channel fader like a noob , For what I understand I need to set the Main and channel fader to U, and then increase the gain just so it doesnt peak (yellow zone) for each channels, and then after that raise or lower the channel fader as desire... I guess that the mics were all too sensitive...

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Gain structure (how you set your levels) won't affect the bleed.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Gain structure (how you set your levels) won't affect the bleed.

Unless it's so loud that it's clipping and smashing the drum peaks down into the bleed. I don't use a mixer, but I just leave the mic gains on the interface all the way down (unity gain on mine) and go.

 

[neoblasted]

really ? I thought by placing the condenser closer to the source and reducing gain would reduce the bleed from others instrument

 

[bouldersoundguy]

really ? I thought by placing the condenser closer to the source and reducing gain would reduce the bleed from others instrument

Putting the mic closer to the source improves the isolation. Gain changes the overall level but not the relationship between intended signal and bleed.

 

[neoblasted]

Thanks all

 

[bileshake]

There's alot of good advice there. What I do since my live rehearsals are meant to be quick demos. To me that means something you can quickly get to mp3 or cd quick without alot of batch processing. Often I will discard a good percentage of these recordings once new songs are close to being finished so its silly to spend much time on them.
Personally, a couple SM57's up on a stand in the room leaves me a decent balance that doesn't need a bunch of processing. the room might a little treatment to keep reflexions down but this what I do.