Record all trax in STEREO? Why/Why Not?

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superspit

superspit

idiots unite!
Hi CE Pro's..... :)

I do appologies for the length of my thread, but I'm sure that they're are avid readers who will be more than happy to read and consider my stuff!! I thank you in advance... :)

I'd like to run something past you regarding the mode of stereo/mono operation while recording your trax to CEP/Adobe. (I'm currently CEP 2.1)

For the past 5 years since I've been using CE, or it's variants (makes no difference in this conversation), I've always recorded ALL of my trax in STEREO, regardless.
Vox, gits, bass,backing vox, synths.
The drums have always been recorded with 4-5 mics, so they've always had their own trax.

Now, allow me to get a little deeper....

I've always (rightly or wrongly) believed that a 'stereo instrument', like my synths, should be recorded in stereo, to take advantage, obviously, of it's 'complete' output......"let's record/leave that in stereo", I figure.

Now, with my mono instruments like guitars and bass's and VOX, I've still always recorded these in stereo mode, all via my desk's main outs (L & R) into my delta's channels 1 & 2, for example. The file recorded then, in CE, is a 'twin-mono' effect.
Why do I do this?...(and tell me if my logic is compromised)...because I figure that when I go to add my software reverbs and delays, which are stereo FX, those 2 mono signals within the 1 track, come out with real 'presence'. I've tried recording vox in mono format, and the presence from the FX that I apply is not there, mono in, mono out theory.
The same with my typically sounding flanged or chorused bass guitar, I record that in 'double-mono' (dry), so I can apply a thick stereo flange/chorus effect, to some of my music.

Now to my gits, which I sometimes lay upto 4-5 parts, at times, again, all in stereo (true stereo), as I now am using a stereo amp simulator for my guitars, I am truly recording a direct/live stereo feed into CEP....

Sometimes, I mic my cabinet, but I'll still record in stereo mode.

NOW THE QUESTION I POSE TO YOU.....
My guitars do not all come out from the centre, as I like to pan 60-90% L & R rhythm gits, centre lead, centre bass...etc.
Am I actually losing power/sound quality/something(!) by panning a stereo recorded signal to the left or right. Should I be recording particular parts in mono/stereo that would better suit the music.ie, left rhythm mono, lead stereo, right rhythm mono...etc.

I guess this is one of those questions that could open a can of worms, and may only be as complex, potentially, as the person reading this??? (5hit, that was pretty rude of me!!) :p

I am not particularly worried about disk space strategies or CPU useage, infact, I'd prefer if we leave these thoughts out of the equation (too far off topic and one I have no interest in, for this situation).

Please, if you require more detail, just let me know.
I guess I'm really just after how you guys would handle a typical recording session, with a mono or stereo tracking theory/idea/thoughts/practise (??)

Girly Girl and I thank you..(she started it actually!!!)..
Kindest Regards,
Superpit.
 
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The short explanation

I record all tracks in mono, with the exception of the occasional stereo instrument such as keyboards or drum machines. "Stereo", in the sense of a stereo mix, is the placement of instruments and vocals in a more-or-less realistic field from left to right. Ordinarily, with overdubbed recordings, this is achieved by panning, loudness, and application of delay, especially reverberation.

When the original tracks are recorded in stereo, the end result is contradictory information reaching the listener's ear once the tracks have been mixed to stereo.

I have a friend who has a high-end recording setup, including a Mac, ProTools, and Neumann mics, and he religiously records everything in stereo. I might add that he exclusively records acoustic instruments such as fiddle, banjo, guitar and so on. His mixes are invariably muddy, but he can't divorce his thinking from the "stereo tracks are more realistic" long enough to even try to record in mono. Me, not being a purist or a fanatic, I record in mono and then have much greater control over the stereo imaging of the final mix.
 
lpdeluxe said:
I record all tracks in mono, with the exception of the occasional stereo instrument such as keyboards or drum machines. "Stereo", in the sense of a stereo mix, is the placement of instruments and vocals in a more-or-less realistic field from left to right. Ordinarily, with overdubbed recordings, this is achieved by panning, loudness, and application of delay, especially reverberation.

When the original tracks are recorded in stereo, the end result is contradictory information reaching the listener's ear once the tracks have been mixed to stereo.

I have a friend who has a high-end recording setup, including a Mac, ProTools, and Neumann mics, and he religiously records everything in stereo. I might add that he exclusively records acoustic instruments such as fiddle, banjo, guitar and so on. His mixes are invariably muddy, but he can't divorce his thinking from the "stereo tracks are more realistic" long enough to even try to record in mono. Me, not being a purist or a fanatic, I record in mono and then have much greater control over the stereo imaging of the final mix.
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Hi IPD!!
I liked your comments....seems to make sense.
I will be doing my next piece with mono tracking.
mmmm.....mudiness?......yep, seems to have always plagued me in the past.....maybe this is one aspect to finding why that's the case.
Mind sets?.......Yeah, I tend to get stuck on concepts that aren't neccessarily correct!!
Thankyou,
SSpit.
 
One mic, one sound, mono. That's all there is to it. Double (copy) it, as recording the same signal to two tracks, still mono. Make 100 copies of it and pan them all over the place, still mono.

All recording to two tracks does is take twice the computing power and disk space.
 
But it would make a certain amount of sense if he was using two mics in a stereo miking setup, right? Then he'd have a true stereo recording of a real stereo sound (the room would deliver reflections at slightly different times to the two mics and he'd get a bigger room sound on his vocal, for instance).
 
Massive Master said:
One mic, one sound, mono. That's all there is to it. Double (copy) it, as recording the same signal to two tracks, still mono. Make 100 copies of it and pan them all over the place, still mono.

All recording to two tracks does is take twice the computing power and disk space.
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Hi MM,.....I'm not entirely sure you read my post completely.(?)
One of reasons I was recording in stereo, (Double Mono, mono) or whatever else people like to call it, was to make greater use of the stereo FX that I use.
I understand and concur with your thoughts, just not hitting my subject..I guess?
I do use two mics on occasion, sometimes 1 mic, still recorded to one 'stereo' track. (2 mono's within the same track, if you prefer).
It was more to do with "am I hurting the sound/quality if I want to pan a stereo signal", or should I just record in mono, and pan that?
I understand people thinking why I'd want to pan a stereo signal, but let's not worry about that too much..
Thankyou for you thought, much appreciated.
SS.
 
dobro said:
But it would make a certain amount of sense if he was using two mics in a stereo miking setup, right? Then he'd have a true stereo recording of a real stereo sound (the room would deliver reflections at slightly different times to the two mics and he'd get a bigger room sound on his vocal, for instance).
Click to expand...

Hi Dobro,
I need to make contact with you regarding log-on issues to your CEP/ADOBE site. :)
I'll try again tonight.
SS.
 
@ Dobro - True. Two mics / one source, stereo recording.

@ Superspit - Not necessarily "hurting" but driving a dual-mono source into a stereo effect is the same as driving the mono source into a stereo effect. Unless you're talking about a plug that would go onto a mono track as an insert and actually stay mono...
 
superspit said:
It was more to do with "am I hurting the sound/quality if I want to pan a stereo signal", or should I just record in mono, and pan that?
Click to expand...
It's best to record in mono and pan accordingly. The exception would be if you want to use a stereo chorus or ping pong delay then you need a left and right side even if it's double mono.
 
The problem that most people run into is that they record each individual instrument in stereo as if it were the only instrument in the mix- meaning the banjo (or whatever) is in the center of the image and the room ambience gives the recording that stereo space. Then what you end up with is a bunch of instruments on top of each other in the center of the image with a bunch of room ambiences (mostly the same room) on the sides. Of course it's going to turn into a mess.

People who know what they are doing that record all the instruments in stereo will pick a space and mic the space. Then the different instruments will be placed in the space where he wants the instrument to be in the stereo image.

The way to get around the stereo processing problem is to use aux sends from the mono track to feed the stereo effects. That's the way it is normally done anyway.
 
thankyou guys......all very good responses that I will greatly appreciate.

Last nite I had a good long think of what I may have been doing wrong, or what I could be doing better, while tracking,.......the first and most lasting thing I thought of was to actually sit down prior to a session and 'map-out' what is going to happen first, what track should it go to, where will it sit in the mix, and do I require a stereo track, or not.

It was kind of fun....! It looked a bit like a map!!

Kindest Regards,
SuperSpit.
 
Once I had to add synth-track to my project.
There were drums, bass, three guitars and vox in my session..
I recorded synth stereo but it did not fit well. I felt like it spoiled my rhythm guitars.
Then I spilt it to two mono tracks and paned both wider.
I'm wondering if this technique is common or was it just stupid thing to do???
 
sikter said:
Then I spilt it to two mono tracks and paned both wider.
I'm wondering if this technique is common or was it just stupid thing to do???
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You didn't do anything. You split a stereo track (left channel on the left and right channel on the right) into two mono channels (left channel and right channel) and panned them hard (left channel on the left and right channel on the right).

There is no way to pan the channels wider than stereo. Panning them in a little bit could have helped by making it more mono, but you didn't make it more stereo.
 
You are right. I totally agree with you. I did not intend to say "wider".

I actually panned them in (closer to centre).
If I panned them 100% left and 100% right it means I did nothing.
It would be same as stereo track I recorded in the first place.
I made it more narrow in this way ‘cause I had them 75% left and 50% right.
 
sikter said:
You are right. I totally agree with you. I did not intend to say "wider".

I actually panned them in (closer to centre).
If I panned them 100% left and 100% right it means I did nothing.
It would be same as stereo track I recorded in the first place.
I made it more narrow in this way ‘cause I had them 75% left and 50% right.
Click to expand...
This is one of the arguments against using stereo tracks at all.

The only time I use stereo tracks is when I'm making a sub-mix so I can turn off the 30 channels of backing vocals so my computer doesn't choke on them. i never record anything to a stereo track.
 
Farview: exactly. Me too. When I get a group of tracks EQ'ed and panned the way I like them (like backing vocals for example) I'll make a stereo mixdown of that group of tracks. Reduces the load on my machine. It's a pain in the ass though if I decide I want to go back and tweak the EQ or panning. So keep your originals.
 
Hi, I have been recording and mixing alll week and have some of the same ponderings as the original question poser. I find that my foundation track with my drums and soft synth is fighting with the other tracks when I try to place the others in a listening field...and when I attempt to mix it in, and do the basics like some eqing, comping etc. it wants to rise up above the others or hold its own in the space it has been recorded in.

I guess my inquiry is, should I record this basic track in mono, or split the stereo one into 2 mono files...or follow another procedure? Also, when I mix and master this file doesn't want to allow other ones to find their place and when I master, the drum parts, with the snares, etc. get lifted up too much. So, keep the thread going, sure there will be some procedures brought up that will help all of else make better recordings in Cool Edit/Adobe, Derrick
 
psongman said:
Hi, I have been recording and mixing alll week and have some of the same ponderings as the original question poser..............


Hi Derek, and all respondents,
well, I'm simply getting better sounding results already by tracking mostly mono. I seem to have more control too, in the overall session.
I've decided the only things that I will actually track in stereo will be my lead guitar-straight out of the 2 channel amp simulator, and my synth/keys.
Tweaking of my desk and/or my software mixer (CEP) will take care of the final stereo image of the song itself, dependig on if I want panning automation or if the instrument is set left/right..ie...a rith guitar.

I just don't know why I was ever tracking a guitar that would ultimately sit hard left, in stereo!!...(for example).

Kindest Regards,
SuperSpit.
Click to expand...
 
superspit said:
psongman said:
Hi, I have been recording and mixing alll week and have some of the same ponderings as the original question poser..............

I just don't know why I was ever tracking a guitar that would ultimately sit hard left, in stereo!!...(for example).

Kindest Regards,
SuperSpit.
Click to expand...
Hey!
I think you’ve recorded mono instrument into stereo track which means you got one side recorded and other side empty.
You must record it as mono. The right click on your empty track (where you record)/recording device and choose either left or right channel.
(you’ll find out easy which one is connected with your input signal)
Even better: Make those settings as default. (options/settings)
sikter
Click to expand...
 
idk of CEPs capability but i know in like cubase if you record everything mono or w/e you can apply different amounts of stereo bus effects that make the instruments really have presence
 
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