Record a Blues Band

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Artkoudos

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Hello everybody I am new in this forum but i've used it a lot of times in the past to get some tips for recordings... And now i decided to be an active member ! !

I have a project coming up on Tuesday. it's a Blues band. Normal stuff Vocals, Guitar, Bass, Drums and Saxophone ...

The Plan is to record live all of them to get the live feeling of the band (really important for this kind of music) and then overdub most of the parts to get a more clear sound without loosing the feeling...

The Guitar is an Epiphone, i don't know about his amplifier I am thinking to use two mics for close micing (SM57 and Senheiser 421) and then choose one of them. Additionally a Calrec half a meter away and experiment afterwards when i mix.

Just a D 112 for the Bass.

Drums: mic up each element and then stereo overheads. Which technique would you suggest?? More open sound spaced pair or a less wide stereo image to get more solid sound??

Vocals i'll probably use a U87 or a SE Electronics Z3330a and for the Saxophone AKG 414 or U87 again

Any Comments or Suggestions ???

Will be nice to get some extra Ideas from you guys :) :)
 
Keep the drums simple. I'll never for the life of me understand why everybody these days for every kind of misic feels they need to throw a hundred mics on the drum kit. For stuff like blues, punk, classic jazz, I'd really suggest keeping it simple. Take a look at my response to this thread for an example of a technique I'd recommend for your drums as well.

Go with what works on the guitar cab(s), but if you have the 421 left over, you might want to see how that works on the sax as well. It may not give you what you want, but it's a common go-to in live sax miking worth trying at least.

G.
 
Yeah i agree in a way... The drum set won't be huge 1 or 2 toms and the floor one, then ride, crash, hi - hat..

D112 for the Kick sm57beta for the snare and then xy or spaced pair for the overheads. Most of the times i use AKG 414 and some times DPA the small ones (don't remember the code).

I didn't really get what you said about the guitar an the saxophone for the 421... You mean that if i finally use the senheiser for the guitar it might suit to use it also for the Sax???
 
Artkoudos said:
Hello everybody I am new in this forum but i've used it a lot of times in the past to get some tips for recordings... And now i decided to be an active member ! !

I have a project coming up on Tuesday. it's a Blues band. Normal stuff Vocals, Guitar, Bass, Drums and Saxophone ...

The Plan is to record live all of them to get the live feeling of the band (really important for this kind of music) and then overdub most of the parts to get a more clear sound without loosing the feeling...

The Guitar is an Epiphone, i don't know about his amplifier I am thinking to use two mics for close micing (SM57 and Senheiser 421) and then choose one of them. Additionally a Calrec half a meter away and experiment afterwards when i mix.

Just a D 112 for the Bass.

Drums: mic up each element and then stereo overheads. Which technique would you suggest?? More open sound spaced pair or a less wide stereo image to get more solid sound??

Vocals i'll probably use a U87 or a SE Electronics Z3330a and for the Saxophone AKG 414 or U87 again

Any Comments or Suggestions ???

Will be nice to get some extra Ideas from you guys :) :)


I didn't exactly catch everything you're recording with. Sounds like you have some good mics though. Care to dazzle us with what kind of preamps you have availble for the project?

I don't know if this the intention already, but just my side of the coin...



-I agree with the idea of recording everybody as a whole for feel. However, sometimes bands can't seem to get it together in a studio as they do live. Hard to beleive, but it does happen. Some musicians, as good as they are, might freeze up in a static environment.

So just feel out the situation. If they do sound great live, and what you record sounds amazing to you and the band, then none of my babble applies.

-Is the live recording final? Or have considered having the live recording and emphasing on something like drums and having the other tracks as scratch?

The reason I ask is, if it was me, and I wanted to get the best out of the situation, I would do the live recording but with my best sounds starting on the drums.

Then perhaps DI (or isolate) anything else that I could and call those "scratch guitar, scratch sax, etc."

I suggest it because, as good as it might sound in the moment, there might be things later on that might not match up EQ wise, performance wise....whatever be the case.


So later on, you can experiment with each instrument with special attention to that instrument. At that point you can start saying, "well maybe the 87 sounds best for vocals and the 414 sounds good for sax (your lead stuff).

It might be the other way around, or you might even choose to use the 57 for the sax instead. The whole point is, I wouldn't completely shut out the idea of overdubbing later on. It might even be brought up again anyway.

"Hey dude, I definitly loved the way the sax sounds and feels, but do you think we can try it again? I have a better idea for this part (or the entire thing)" That's a normal senario.

Plus you might even want to try a different room for other parts.

-I could care to try the 87 and/or 414 on the guitar cab, those mics work well for that. I'm not a big fan of the SM57 on a guitar cab (for digital anyway), but you might even wanna try that.


-For the bass, is that all you want? Just to mic it with a 112? Cause you can get some good sounds with just a mic, but maybe DI it just in case?

It gives you more to work with. Plus if the speaker is lacking on some of those frequencies that make a bass punch through a mix, DI helps.

The performance will dictate that, too. So if the guy is a pick player, then that gives you one sound. If the guy plays finger, then thats a completely different sound, which in turn needs slightly different approaches for tracking.

In fact, the U87 is a pretty good mic to have for micing bass cabs (plus DI).


-I agree with the notion that simple is better in many cases. Less jumble to work with and easier to track your sounds. However, you just have to really think about what's historically happening in the situation.

By that I mean, you have to keep in mind what the "blues sound" is. Just like if you had to prepare yourself for a jazz session. Or a rock session.

Traditional Jazz is not so incredibly busy on the drums. So you can get away with emphasising the important parts. In that case, the hi hat, the kick and the details on the snare. You would mix that a little more organically than you would blues.

Blues is a little puncher on the beat, so it can mix a little more aggresively. You can probably get a little more violent with compression, if thats what the music calls for.

So each has different emphasis. Just like a good producer once told me, "you know what that guy's problem is? (refering to this grammy engineer).

I asked, "so tell me, what is his problem?"

He tells me, "he's good, but he only knows how to mix one way".

I'm not saying you have to be world class, but simply stating that it's ok to think differently with all your new approaches. Reinventing yourself constantly if you will.

-Drums, well that depends. You want more overall "roomy" sounds, or a tight and focused sound? Roomy would mean things like higher placement of the overheads. Tight may mean things like tighter mic placement along with compression.


-Vocals, well you have two very good mics for that (traditionally speaking), but of course, that shouldn't be the first thing to reach for.



Other than that, that's just some babble from me. The only additional advice I have reall is: to listen to all the blues you can, then based on your best memory of that, use your ears and hit record. :D
 
Artkoudos said:
I didn't really get what you said about the guitar an the saxophone for the 421... You mean that if i finally use the senheiser for the guitar it might suit to use it also for the Sax???
What I meant was that it sounded like you were thinking about trying the 421 on the git cab - which is not a bad idea - and I was just saying to keep a thought in your head that if you wound up not selecting it for the cab and you had a free 421, that you might want to try it on the sax as it is a decent sax mic.

G.
 
Care to dazzle us with what kind of preamps you have availble for the project?

Except of the desk ones i only have a two inputs/outputs tube Pre amp, but i can't remember which one it is. I know that this is bad but that's the truth. I have good comments though about them from other people that have used them in that particular studio in the past..

What's your suggetion??

-Is the live recording final? Or have considered having the live recording and emphasing on something like drums and having the other tracks as scratch?
Then perhaps DI (or isolate) anything else that I could and call those "scratch guitar, scratch sax, etc."



The intention is that we might keep the drums from the live recording. And yes DI is considered for the first live recording and then probably make the overdubs for the rest of the Instruments.. If everything is working on the live recording we'll keep it like that.. Everything depends on their performance and on the sound that we will get in the studio. Anyway i would like to mic up the guitar and Bass Cabinet and overdub their parts. I think i can get better results with the mics that i have available.

I could care to try the 87 and/or 414 on the guitar cab, those mics work well for that. I'm not a big fan of the SM57 on a guitar cab (for digital anyway), but you might even wanna try that.


I will use the Tascams DA78HR (digital) but the whole studio is Analogue. I've never tried the 414 or the U87 to mic up a cabinet but i've also never record a blues band. Always there was a more rock sounding band when it was coming to guitar cabinet. I've used the SE Electronics Z3300a and it worked fine so i might give it a try since the sound won't be harsh and full of distortion.

Drums, well that depends. You want more overall "roomy" sounds, or a tight and focused sound? Roomy would mean things like higher placement of the overheads. Tight may mean things like tighter mic placement along with compression.


Somewhere in the middle. I don't like things really settle i like to hear the room but not too much except if the project requires that of course..

I'll start with Kick Snare and hi-hat and probably XY using the 414 ? What do you think of Calrecs?? I think they will make a nice stereo pair as well..

Other than that, that's just some babble from me. The only additional advice I have reall is: to listen to all the blues you can, then based on your best memory of that, use your ears and hit record.


I'll do that ! ! !

Thanks for the advice and your time to think about my project..
 
What's your suggetion??


well in terms of preamps, they are usually considered a big deal in the pro audio world. Of course, I always assume the project will be pro (even on homerecording), so that's why I give that advice accordingly. Besides, I don't know how to discribe it any other way.


Preamps would be the single most important thing in giving your signal that boost so it can be heard. More commonly refered to as "line level". A good preamp will do that very quietly, crisply (improving seperation) as well as embedding it's "coloration" to the track you are recording. Plus it gives you tons of dynamic range to work with. It's those attributes that people pay loads of money for.

A bad preamp will bring up noise, provide unwanted coloration, limit your dynamic range or simply perform less than what you expect.

So you see, it goes beyond the good mics. Even a bad preamp can ruin a good mic.


So for that, I suppose whatever preamps you have availble are what you have to work with. Mackie VLZs (XDR preamps) are a common affordable mixer with pretty capable pres.

But if you have the option to rent gear, then API, NEVE, Manely, Universal Audio, Focusrite, Avalon and Vintech are just some that come up for good sound.

Expensive to buy, but affordable to rent for maybe a couple of days.


I'll start with Kick Snare and hi-hat and probably XY using the 414 ? What do you think of Calrecs?? I think they will make a nice stereo pair as well..


Can't go wrong with the 414s :) Calrecs, I couldn't tell ya, but worth comparison.


Thanks for the advice and your time to think about my project..

I'm glad I could help. Good luck.
 
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