Recommended Mixer

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Blackdog.sn

New member
Hello,
I've got a Tascam 22-4, and i need a mixer capable of outputting to all 4 tracks. Do you guys have any suggestions for cheap mixer for this. So for i've looked at:

Yamaha 10/2 -----which i don't think i can output 4 tracks, or monitor 4 tracks. (please tell me if i am wrong)

Yamaha 12/4 -----this seems like a safe bet, but its kind of tight squeeze money wise (im a student :( )

Edit: Mackie 1202 VLZ-PRO -----I've also looked at few of these (used), and they seem to have all the functionality.... any good?

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
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teac -5 is a "perfect" match for your machine :cool: , while 1202-VLZ is simply much better mixer.
I'd go for better mixer :p
*********
on the other hand the 'task' is important when choosing a gear. What are you planning to record/how. Mics? Instruments? what kind? etc... Do you care about mic pre(s)? and phantom power? Do you care about having sliders or are you okey with knobs? Do you need VUs? or are you ok with just pair of led-vu? stuff like that...

/respects
 
On the face of it I'd go for a Mackie as a cheap mixer. I've used a couple and liked them, but as the Good Doctor says you need to consider what you're wanting to do with it before jumping - one of the Yamahas, or an eBay Tascam of some description, may have a specific feature that you absolutely need but which is absent on the Mackie.

Whatever you do, don't buy a Behringer. It may look great, as may the price, but it will end in tears.
 
Dr ZEE said:
teac -5 is a "perfect" match for your machine :cool: , while 1202-VLZ is simply much better mixer.
I'd go for better mixer :p
Click to expand...

IMHO the VLZ 1202 is a lesser quality mixer than the older TEAC's like the m-30 and even the model 5. The patching and routing capabilities are almost non-existant on the 1202 as compared to the M-30 and Model 5. I've found the preamps on the VLZ 1202 not any better, from real world experience, than what the older TASCAM/TEAC mixers have. I think the whole Mackie line of mixers are too expensive for what you actually get. They are just a bunch of hype if you ask me. If I had a choice between an m30 mixer or a VLZ 1202, I'd get the m30. No contest.

Daniel
 
Blackdog.sn said:
Yamaha 10/2 -----which i don't think i can output 4 tracks, or monitor 4 tracks. (please tell me if i am wrong)

Yamaha 12/4 -----this seems like a safe bet, but its kind of tight squeeze money wise (im a student :( )

Edit: Mackie 1202 VLZ-PRO -----I've also looked at few of these (used), and they seem to have all the functionality.... any good?

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...

From the choices above I would go with the Yamaha MG12/4. The Mackie 1202 is not 4-buss and doesn't have sliders, so I would pass on it. Mackie boards are good though. Look for something old or new w/4-buss.


If I had a 22-4 I would also look at the Tascam M-208/M-216, or if phantom power is needed, the Tascam M-308B/M-312B. These particular Tascam boards are my all time favorites for most recording applications where space and cost are important.

-Tim :)
 
Beck said:
If I had a 22-4 I would also look at the Tascam M-208/M-216, or if phantom power is needed, the Tascam M-308B/M-312B. These particular Tascam boards are my all time favorites for most recording applications where space and cost are important.
Click to expand...

The M-208, M-216 and the M-300 series (B) versions are superb. I agree! :)

~Daniel
 
mixers for recordists are sort of like amps for guitarists.... heh heh. Mine is better - :D
*****
with vlz 1202 you can get 4 tracks out, but it's freaky, sorta' and kinda' ..I don't know how to describe ... - ..hmmm- yappy. Is it a word? :D
What you do is: pan chnl1 hard left, pan chnl2 hard right, pan chnl3 hard left, pan chnl4 hard right, then 'punch' , let's say, chnl3 and chnl4 to 'mute/alt3/4'.... , so this way main L out is your track 1, main R out is your track 2, alt3/4 L out is your track 3 and alt3/4 R out is your track 4. - it's yappy, you see? :p

buying real old mixer is a very 'smoky activity' ;) ..., but then again, it depends also on what you are planing to do, record what and how. If you are planning on doing some/or allot of adjustments/slide/knob moves on the fly while recording/mixing ...then look out. Mixer's age may be a serious issue there.

/respects
 
So for the Mackie, i thought that the 4 channel inserts go to each track on the reel. Is this not true?

And for the vintage gear, are there any risks involved in buying mixers that old?

Oh and btw, i want to record a 3 peice rock band, with 2 or 3 vocals (though not all at once)
 
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Blackdog.sn said:
So for the Mackie, i thought that the 4 channel inserts go to each track on the reel. Is this not true?

And for the vintage gear, are there any risks involved in buying mixers that old?
Click to expand...
yes, you can use 1/4" mono(s) and plug them into 'inserts' and send each chnl to your recorder, but this way you get mic preamp, trim and lo-cut options, but you can not use fader(gain) and you can not use eq of the mixer for recording. So if all you want is to use mic pres of the mixer, then you can do it that way.
I believe mackie.com have pdf manuals on line for their mixers... you need to get to 'support' section, then find product etc...
As I recall the manuals for mackie(s) are pretty well written and have some basic diagrams etc...
********
as for old used mixers. well, it all depends. The problem is that all the moving parts: pots, sliders and knobs get old, and then depends on how the mixer was used, where was it stored, was it in garage for 15 years or so... ;)..., was any beer or coffe all over the mixer? if was - how many times? :D ...yada yada ... Even if it was not obused, you still get scratches and drops all over... you can treat and clean it for some good result.... If you are not going to make any knobs sliders on the fly, then it will not be an issue, but if you are going to, then one or two clicks/scratches - and you mix/or recording session is killed... see?
If you are buying some vintage mixer on e-bay, I'd say get some good stuff from www.caig.com - you'll need it :) , get at least a can on DeoxIT D5.

good luck,
 
Dr ZEE said:
yes, you can use 1/4" mono(s) and plug them into 'inserts' and send each chnl to your recorder, but this way you get mic preamp, trim and lo-cut options, but you can not use fader(gain) and you can not use eq of the mixer for recording. So if all you want is to use mic pres of the mixer, then you can do it that way.
I believe mackie.com have pdf manuals on line for their mixers... you need to get to 'support' section, then find product etc...
As I recall the manuals for mackie(s) are pretty well written and have some basic diagrams etc...
Click to expand...

So, using this method i would only be able to adjust each tracks volume, eq etc, when monitoring or mixing down.

Does the yamaha use similar method with "channel inserts". Also how do the pre's in the Yamaha compare to the Mackie? I hear a lot of people like both.

In the end either one would be roughly the same price (yamaha being new and the mackie being used)

btw if you couldn't tell im pretty new at this...thanks for all your help
 
Blackdog.sn said:
So, using this method i would only be able to adjust each tracks volume, eq etc, when monitoring or mixing down.

Does the yamaha use similar method with "channel inserts". Also how do the pre's in the Yamaha compare to the Mackie? I hear a lot of people like both.

In the end either one would be roughly the same price (yamaha being new and the mackie being used)

btw if you couldn't tell im pretty new at this...thanks for all your help
Click to expand...
inserts are just what they are - inserts :). You just need to check in specs of the mixer where is (pre/post) the insert-point located. In vlz it's post preamp/trim/low cut and pre eq/fade. (what ever in the channel is after the insert point will not effect the output of the insert 'send' signal)

Here's mackie 1202 manual: http://www.mackie.com/pdf/1202vlzpro_om.pdf


Now, I don't know anything about yamahas... never had one. they look good to me, but a bit different in overall design etc...
First of all MG10/2 has only two inserts (on mono chnl 1 and 2), and according to this diagram ( http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Documents/ProAudio/block_mg102.pdf ) , it looks like the insert point is post eq and pre fade, so you can eq 'send signal', but can not control its gain with mixer's fader.

Now, I would not dare try to compare preamps mackie vs yamaha. I did not do any personal 'a/b' test on em, so how would I know. You may hear 180 degree 'reviews' either way from users.... so ? I'd say the pres are fine on either mixers for the price. I would not call these mixers really cheap thou.... They are good for a small or some specific task.
Recording band with a compact mixer - is duable, but, man, that's a very tight situation ;)

/respects
 
How much would a Soundcraft M4 cost you? Four preamps with direct outputs, keeping your main stereo bus free for monitoring or for an extra two outputs for the line level channels. Preamps superior to the Yamaha and Mackie, and EQ that's a lot better too.

Yamaha MGs are the best of the cheap cheap boards though. :)
 
M4 is a killer compact mixer. It is also may go new for around 500 bucks :eek: ,.... so... yeah
if you can squizz half'a'K...then go for it.

But, looking overall into the situation, as you've described, and your plans to try to record a band and if you can spend 400-500 bucks, then if I was you, I'd go for Mackie CFX-12. I know .. i know.... It's just from my overview of the situation here. Somewhere down the road you may want to record drums, and vocals and other instr what ever in the band, maybe all the same time (as a performance/jam) ... or what have you. You will want to hook few mics for drums, plus vocal(s) ... plus guitar(?)... if you are micing amp, then this may mean - another two mics... you'll need more mic preamps and phantom power, and you would wish to have it all organized and having true 4 bus - really makes a difference... so you can make decision what instr/chnl to record on which one of your 4 tracks and do it (route selected channels (instruments) out to desired track of the recorder) easyly with no compromises....
The FX section of the mixer maybe ok, maybe sucks (I don't know... I knd of guess it isn't "top of the line" ;) ), but it may be handy and actually usefull for low budget recording setup.

Again, if you spot a used mixer and you are sure that it is in good condition go for it (a bit of risk, but saves you few bux).
If you are "a beginner" or do not feel cool about possible need to trouble shooting/fixing/or performing major clean up of the mixer , then I would not recommend you going after any vintage items. It does not mean that the old teac/tascam mixers are no-good for the job, but you have to be willing to face possible problems. So if the budget is an issue for you, spending what ever you've got on something which may end up as a non-working or need a fix unit .... it's kind of risky. See what I mean?

/respects
 
Well i've been reading all 3 manuals over the past few days, just trying to figure what exactly i need, and which one has it.

Dr ZEE said:
M4 is a killer compact mixer. It is also may go new for around 500 bucks :eek: ,.... so... yeah
if you can squizz half'a'K...then go for it.

But, looking overall into the situation, as you've described, and your plans to try to record a band and if you can spend 400-500 bucks, then if I was you, I'd go for Mackie CFX-12. I know .. i know.... It's just from my overview of the situation here. Somewhere down the road you may want to record drums, and vocals and other instr what ever in the band, maybe all the same time (as a performance/jam) ... or what have you. You will want to hook few mics for drums, plus vocal(s) ... plus guitar(?)... if you are micing amp, then this may mean - another two mics... you'll need more mic preamps and phantom power, and you would wish to have it all organized and having true 4 bus - really makes a difference... so you can make decision what instr/chnl to record on which one of your 4 tracks and do it (route selected channels (instruments) out to desired track of the recorder) easyly with no compromises....
The FX section of the mixer maybe ok, maybe sucks (I don't know... I knd of guess it isn't "top of the line" ;) ), but it may be handy and actually usefull for low budget recording setup.
Click to expand...

Well, the sound-craft looks great. But a little outa my budget. I think the 12/4 does have 4 bus, to group channels and what not, which seems ideal for my case.(please verify this) Right now my limitation is just number of mics, so when i have more the 4 bus would be great.

Thanks for all the comments
 
Blackdog.sn said:
Well i've been reading all 3 manuals over the past few days, just trying to figure what exactly i need, and which one has it.



Well, the sound-craft looks great. But a little outa my budget. I think the 12/4 does have 4 bus, to group channels and what not, which seems ideal for my case.(please verify this) Right now my limitation is just number of mics, so when i have more the 4 bus would be great.

Thanks for all the comments
Click to expand...

Again, man, I don't have any experience with yamahas. so I 'm just telling you from what I can see in specifications.
(btw, here's yamaha site's page: MG mixers

Yes, it looks like 12/4 has 4 busses. I also hope you are not confusing bus with input/or insert/or direct out. :) Bus in general is the "bottom" point where signals can be brought together (and sent out from mixer with gain control if provided by design (calling group fader/ group out).
So in 12/4 there is main stereo 2 busses (L and R) and also Group 1/2 two busses (you can look at it like second separate stereo out with dedicated group gain control). Well, that what you've got there.
Now 12/4 has 4 mono chnls with mic pre and inserts ... so these inserts can be used as post preamp and post eq direct outs for recording.... again you will have to use your recorder's rec level controls as you can not control level on your mixer when routing signal from insert points.
If you can squiz extra 100 bucks, then get 16/4 .... again, you really may need more inputs and mic pres at some point later... just to record drums you'd need I'd say at least four mics (say: kik, snare, one for toms and one above cymbals.... not really greatest way... but that is sort of doable :rolleyes: , just for fun and experimenting around I actually managed recording drum set with just two mics (one sm57 dynamic placed as closed as possible in the area between snare, top of the kick drum and toms and one ksm109 condenser , placed in kinda' low position above everything... :D ) - you get some sort of drums recorded that way... 'jamming in the corner of the club style', I guess I can call it :p

/respects
 
The Doctor has you covered there. Depends how you're working, and how you're monitoring. For my sins, I used to use an MG10/2 for my recording, tapping the two inserts for direct outs and using the stereo buss for the other two ... so getting four distinct outputs, but needing another facility to connect monitors and phones up. Now I do it all with a Soundcraft M12 ...
 
I would go the used tascam m30 m35 or maybe the newer style like the m 1508. There is alot to be said about having a true inline mixer that is designed for recording. It will save you alot of headaches during mixing and recording. With boards like that you wont have to do much in the way of patching. It can really speed up a recording session.
Here is a pic of the 1508 they can be had for about 135.00 on ebay and are nice little mixers that would work real well with your 22-4
 

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Herm said:
I would go the used tascam m30 m35 or maybe the newer style like the m 1508. There is alot to be said about having a true inline mixer that is designed for recording. It will save you alot of headaches during mixing and recording. With boards like that you wont have to do much in the way of patching. It can really speed up a recording session.
Here is a pic of the 1508 they can be had for about 135.00 on ebay and are nice little mixers that would work real well with your 22-4
Click to expand...

I couldn't find the m30, m35, or m1508 on ebay (though im sure they'll show up if i wait), but i did find m308b

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23785&item=7331859075&rd=1

and m308 which looks a bit older

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23785&item=7331078767&rd=1&tc=photo

Any thoughts on these mixers?
 
Blackdog.sn said:
I couldn't find the m30, m35, or m1508 on ebay (though im sure they'll show up if i wait), but i did find m308b

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23785&item=7331859075&rd=1

and m308 which looks a bit older

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=23785&item=7331078767&rd=1&tc=photo

Any thoughts on these mixers?
Click to expand...

You just missed the m30 which I gave you the link for prior the auction close. It went for about $150. Not bad. Good news is that these come up often.


Genuine TASCAM M35 mixers unfortunately don't come up often on eBay but M30's do.

The M308B is a SUPERB mixer. 4 BUSES with loooong sliders and a shit load of features including the super rare phantom power for all channels! Hint: the only difference between a 300 "B" version and regular 300 is that the "B" has phantom power. All the M300 series mixers are excellent tho. The M208/M216 mixers are also very good. I have a "thing" for VU meters so thus my recommendations over LEDs. It's just a personal preference. ;) I say go for it!

~Daniel
 
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