Reaper vs. Pro Tools

[Joseph Hanna]

Not to veer off topic, but wasn't delay compensation only added fairly recently to protools? Version 6 or so? You know, many years after nearly every other DAW had it? What does that say about the developers?

Yes..Pro Tools ADC was added 2 or 3 years ago.

What on Earth could the insinuation "what does that say about the developers?" mean???

Could it mean Digi's engineers are mean guys who like to screw with their customers recording world by intentionally withholding ADC? Probably not.
Perhaps they're programing skills "just ran out" sometime shortly after they wrote the primary TDM code.

Perhaps Digidesign no longer wishes to be in the DAW game and most of their code writers are either off to another company or on a beach drinking.
Maybe they're just plain dumb and can't figure out what ADC is.

The Digidesign conspiracy theory is at best sophomoric and shows a fundemental misunderstanding of both the software and the business in general.

The misleading part of your statement and another misunderstood but often held as an example wives-tale is: ADC
Many applications including DP, Cubase and Logic made various and sundry attempts over the years at implementing some form of ADC.

LOT'S of those attempts were very weak implementations and didn't work well at all. In fact the latest version of Logic 8 is still sans ANY outboard ADC. Flying the flag of ADC does not mean Pro Tools by it's exclusion is behind the game.

My frustration with all of this is not with anything being better or worse but the HORRENDOUS abuse of wives-tales bantered about as facts by some who simply DO NOT KNOW or even understand those statements proffered as facts.

 

[IronFlippy]

I am in no way saying that there's a conspiracy or anything with ProTools. It just seems that if a company has a program that is somewhat the industry standard, then the developers should be more on top of their "game".

ProTools is great, I have no objections to it. It's just not the DAW for me. Reaper does what I need it to, and I believe that the developer is more attuned to what the users are looking for. If ProTools was a bad system, then it's safe to say that it probably would not be as popular as it is today. But there's no such thing as the "perfect" DAW, it's very much subjective.

 

[Joseph Hanna]

I am in no way saying that there's a conspiracy or anything with ProTools. It just seems that if a company has a program that is somewhat the industry standard, then the developers should be more on top of their "game".

ProTools is great, I have no objections to it. It's just not the DAW for me. Reaper does what I need it to, and I believe that the developer is more attuned to what the users are looking for. If ProTools was a bad system, then it's safe to say that it probably would not be as popular as it is today. But there's no such thing as the "perfect" DAW, it's very much subjective.

Yep.... I absolutely agree with everything you say. That and as I've said sooo many other times Reaper and Logic and DP all give the Pro Tools developers great competition and that in the end is good for all of us.

My only caution here is understand the developers of Reaper are not more "in tune" with users as much as it's a small company that is VERY agile when it comes to changes in the software coding.

The core DAE code is fairly old and Digi has known for a long time they're gonna have to start over from scratch. That's a WHOLE lotta re-coding involving a massive amount of companies and a massive amount of plug-in re-writes. This will have to be done all the while not disrupting the GUI and any sonic issues Pro Tools is known for.

They'll get it done (they don't have a choice) but it'll require company shattering resources to do it.

As I've said before Digidesign is not dumb nor closed eared to it's users... it simply takes longer to turn a battleship around than it does a jet ski.

 

[pipelineaudio]

My only caution here is understand the developers of Reaper are not more "in tune" with users as much as it's a small company that is VERY agile when it comes to changes in the software coding.

I guess you have to define what you mean by "in tune with"

Let me know the next time digidesign codes in a new feature as requested by a user within 1/2 an hour of the request as has happened too many times to count in reaper. To me that means the company is responsive to the customer's needs.

I have been a PT owner since it was possible to be a PT owner, and after all these years I still don't have an option to see the contents of events while dragging them. Mouse wheel zoom? They don't listen.

Yes, REAPER's code is much smaller. Lets say reaper was missing half the features of PT (which it isnt). Even if it were to double in size it would still be WAY smaller and still use far far less CPU. But you are comparing a whole ton of semi-mediocre coders, possibly with a few good ones thrown in, against two EXTREMELY capable code jockeys. Its no suprise which one is going to be coded better.

PT was almost 10 years behind the jump to 96khz compared to native. But they have very good reasons, stability, safety, and keeping users from getting into trouble. These are smart, sensible things to do, but to say it doesnt make them "ancient"? I think it does. I mean for a while there they werent just a *little* behind, they were like Amish buggies getting passed by corvettes

 

[Joseph Hanna]

Yes, REAPER's code is much smaller. Lets say reaper was missing half the features of PT (which it isnt). Even if it were to double in size it would still be WAY smaller and still use far far less CPU. But you are comparing a whole ton of semi-mediocre coders, possibly with a few good ones thrown in, against two EXTREMELY capable code jockeys. Its no suprise which one is going to be coded better.

Naw I didn't make my point clear...... my bad.

I don't have a clue as to which code may or may not be bigger. I'm talking about the "companies" overall ability to make stop on a dime changes. Avid is simply to big of a company to negotiate those type of waters.

after all these years I still don't have an option to see the contents of events while dragging them. Mouse wheel zoom? They don't listen.

Again the DAE architecture has needed an overhaul for a long time and nobody is more aware and concerned about it than Digi. As I said earlier they will make that Titanic hurdle but it will be a hugh re-write and there is a decade of third party developers with their products well being on the line. This does not make Digi the bad guys...lots and lots at stake

If Digidesign decided to make a code change within 30 minutes of receiving it where would that put the Avid folks and the many third party developers who's livelihood depends on it and the hundreds of post production facilities that require a more stable product rather than one with lots of new user requests.

The uniqueness of Reaper and it's small company approach is simply wonderful and NO other company can offer that level of service.

It is consumer positive that Reaper can be that responsive to their user base. That said they could not continue to make those maneuvers if they where a company the size of Avid.

Nothing but praise for Reaper and their users and as I've tried to establish this software is nothing but good for all of us. That does not make Digidesign the big evil mad monster in comparison.

Apples to oranges.

 

[IronFlippy]

Mr. Hanna, you make a very good point. It is also the very reason why I prefer Reaper to ProTools.

 

[MCI2424]

Pounds and dollars are very different. Units are EVERYTHING. And he did say without case, monitor, etc. His price is not off.

While building your own computer has its benefits, I don't recommend it if you're not tech savvy. Tech support is the main issue here. When something goes wrong on your home built computer, there's no warranty backing it up. You either fix it yourself, or pay a computer specialist to fix it (big money).

For a stable system, I'd recommend just buying a Dell or other large manufacturer, wiping the hard drive (they ship with far too many extra programs and whatnot installed) and starting with a clean installation of windows (which is almost always included with the computer).

Since you're only using it for home recording, then Reaper is an excellent choice. Fantastic support over at the forums, and you can interact with the developer. If you find a bug and report it, it takes him literally a couple days at most to fix (depending on how much he is working on at the time, naturally). Have I mentioned how fast the program is? I absolutely love Reaper, it does exactly what I need it to do, and it does it extraordinarily well.

I recommend staying far away from Dell. They are the worst computers on planet earth in so many ways. I know people will chime in here but Dell is banned from the manufacturing floors in several countries in my company for complex automated testing. I write the code and have been burnt by Dells for sometime now. Many other test engineers have the same things to say about Dell.

 

[pipelineaudio]

its scary running proprietary mobos and stuff but the more recent Dell laptops have been pretty good, with the exception of the onboard firewire

REAPER's coder Justin has a dell dual quad to test with and it seems good, but for a desktop Im still into the roll your own stuff

That said my main PC for testing now is an elcheapo XPC shuttle thats probably 500 bucks and runs like a champ

For a lot of people the days of painfully, painstakingly matching up parts seems to be over, but the FW soundcard makers, many of them, are ratcheting up the crappiness level, hearkening back to the days of yore

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

I recommend staying far away from Dell. They are the worst computers on planet earth in so many ways. I know people will chime in here but Dell is banned from the manufacturing floors in several countries in my company for complex automated testing. I write the code and have been burnt by Dells for sometime now. Many other test engineers have the same things to say about Dell.

You get what you pay for.

In my case three very reliable machines which perform well and which I've never had a single issue with. What's more I paid peanuts for them (relatively speaking).

Still, if I ever need a computer for "complex automated testing" then I'll be sure to follow your advice.

 

[warble2]

We've used several Dell's in our office here without major issues - including a PowerEdge server for Web dev. I guess we're not engineers though, just satisfied users.

I use a self-built PC for DAW work though.

 

[danny.guitar]

I always recommend someone build their own PC from scratch if they know how, or know someone who can.

Dell does use a lot of proprietary parts but when my friend went against the above advice I gave him, and got a Dell ($1,700) it has been working fine and it's lightning fast. He (well, I) also was able to take out the Sound Blaster card it came with and put in a EMU1212M PCI card. No issues at all.

Still, as good of a computer as it is, for $1,700 I could have picked him out the same thing for less, and he'd have plenty of money left over to spend on other shit.

 

[warble2]

...Still, as good of a computer as it is, for $1,700 I could have picked him out the same thing for less, and he'd have plenty of money left over to spend on other shit.

True. To really get a better build quality from Dell, in my experiences takes a nice chunk of change. This is why I still build my own for audio work - more bang for the buck this way. Office computers, well, I'm not so concerned about.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

I always recommend someone build their own PC from scratch if they know how, or know someone who can.

Dell does use a lot of proprietary parts but when my friend went against the above advice I gave him, and got a Dell ($1,700) it has been working fine and it's lightning fast. He (well, I) also was able to take out the Sound Blaster card it came with and put in a EMU1212M PCI card. No issues at all.

Still, as good of a computer as it is, for $1,700 I could have picked him out the same thing for less, and he'd have plenty of money left over to spend on other shit.

When I looked into it I estimated that building my own would cost a fair bit more than a Dell. If you keep an eye on the special offers at the moment you can get an intel core 2 duo machine with a gig of Ram over here for under £400 inc. monitor and peripherals (just the base unit would be under £300). That’s <$800 of yer funny munny. I couldn’t build a half decent machine for that when I looked into it.

Of course your home grown will be a better machine but seeing as I’ve never had an issue with any of my Dells anyway it’s ‘ow you say? “A no brainer” for me.

http://www.dmxdimension.com/blogcategory/dell_uk_inspiron_530.html

 

[danny.guitar]

When I looked into it I estimated that building my own would cost a fair bit more than a Dell. If you keep an eye on the special offers at the moment you can get an intel core 2 duo machine with a gig of Ram over here for under £400 inc. monitor and peripherals (just the base unit would be under £300). That’s <$800 of yer funny munny. I couldn’t build a half decent machine for that when I looked into it.

Of course your home grown will be a better machine but seeing as I’ve never had an issue with any of my Dells anyway it’s ‘ow you say? “A no brainer” for me.

http://www.dmxdimension.com/blogcategory/dell_uk_inspiron_530.html

You're right. One of the main reasons you usually save when building your own computer is, in most cases you already have a monitor, keyboard, etc.

But at that time, he could have saved a couple hundred dollars. Even with the monitor factored in.

Except for the fact that he has dual 500GB hard drives totalling about 1TB (which is completely unnecessary, for him anyway).

I don't think he's even reached the 40GB mark yet.

 

[Hangfire]

I've built all of my boxes for the last 11 or 12 yrs. except for my Think Pad T42. The last one I built was a few yrs. ago so I'll have to get caught up on the latest greatest and figure out what I want;-)

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

Except for the fact that he has dual 500GB hard drives totalling about 1TB (which is completely unnecessary, for him anyway).

I don't think he's even reached the 40GB mark yet.

Yeah that sounds a bit over the top.

 

[Hangfire]

Okay, I've decided to go with PC & Reaper, what are the min requirements I need for a homemade box???

Thanks!

 

[Roguetitan]

I was using pro tools on my old windows 98
KAE which is freeware blows pro tools out of the water
and Reaper is way beyond KAE.
Reaper is a bit more complex but I am quickly learning how everything works

the online support is awesome and the PDF manual can be downloaded plus you can buy a hard copy of the manual, the price is definately right!

 

[Roguetitan]

Okay, I've decided to go with PC & Reaper, what are the min requirements I need for a homemade box???

Thanks!

the
Recommended system: Multiple processors, Windows 2000/XP/Vista with 1GB RAM, >1GB free disk space, 1280x1024 in 16.7M colors, ASIO sound drivers

Minimum system: 500mhz processor, Windows 98/ME/2000/XP/Vista with 128MB RAM, 10MB free disk space, 800x600 in 256 colors or higher, Windows compatible sound hardware

 

[danny.guitar]

Okay, I've decided to go with PC & Reaper, what are the min requirements I need for a homemade box???

Thanks!

Just in case you're interested, here's my specs and it runs very smooth with no hitches. I also MIDI/Reason with ReWire, EZDrummer, and plugins.

AMD Athlon 1.2GHz
512MB RAM (PC333? or something old like that)
80GB 7200 RPM Western Digital hard drive
Shuttle motherboard
NVidia G-Force 4 video card

6 year old computer. I remember when it was considered good.