Really Thick Person Needs To Make A Decision...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dr. Varney
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Dr. Varney

Dr. Varney

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Can anyone throw in any advice?

I have an E-MU 0404 soundcard which uses DSP Patchmix.

I have tried reading the manual and it makes my head hurt and my stomach feel sick. I can't even understand the first thing the writer is talking about.

So I'm thinking of getting rid of it.

The question is, are there simpler to use soundcards out there, which will do good basic recording with zero latency? I only bought it because the onboard sound was giving me very bad latency in my recordings. Now I've bought this professional thing, which I realise just isn't for me.

I don't want to be bothered with Cubase, Sonar or Wavelab or any of that crap that came with my soundcard - I want to record into Audacity and then import the wavs into FL Studio. Or perhaps I would like to record into FL Studio, to make a song.

I can use FL Studio and Audacity. What I can't do, is sit for hours trying to figure out stupid sends, busses, inserts or any of that crap. I'm not an audio professional (and don't want to be). I don't want 'unparalelled routing flexibility', I just want a little music in my life. I'm just a guy who would like to record his guitar with some drums and maybe a bass or a simple keyboard sound. That's it!

So can you recommend a card for me to buy which I can plug in and use without having to read some huge manual and learn lots of big, stupid, unnecessary words, which make me feel wholly inadequate as a human being, instead of an inspired musican?

What about M-Audio. Are they any good?

Thanks

Dr. V

(Note to any would be critics... Where I say 'stupid', 'big' and 'crap' I refer to my own stupid, crap inability to comprehend this fine technology. Sorry, my mind is not wired like yours - I am totally thick - so please only comment if you can give me an answer that will make me feel better - not worse... Thank you.)
 
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I chose to avoid the EMU cards for the exact reasons you state. Patch mix seems awful and I couldn't understand the need for it, or the manual I looked at online to record one input at a time in a one man band situation. Much too complex for my simple mind and I'd rather spend the time on the music.

I started out with a M-Audio fast track pro and Acid music studio from Sony and have never looked back. Acid could see the M-audio unit as soon as I loaded the drivers and all I had to do was select it as the input/output device. Although I have upgraded since I'm still using an M-audio unit to get the sound from the converters to the computer and still record and mix everything in ACID pro.

It has worked for me
 
Okay Doc, you know I've been with you since nearly the start. I do understand your frustration and you can squarely blame it on.... most every aspect of recording.

I mentioned to you in another thread that I had the EMU 0404 and gave up on it because it was not delivering what I wanted. I switched over to a firewire mixer and have not looked back. I have since upgraded to some other stuff, but still use that mixer.

I chose the Phonic Helix firewire mixer for one very important reason, I can record without affecting the raw signal going to the computer. I can still monitor what I'm recording with no latency AND be able to apply a reverb to what I'm recording without it going to the computer. I enjoy some reverb on vocals, but you don't want to apply reverb until you have all your tracks recorded and are ready to mixdown.

I still think you should get through the learning curve for Cubase or Sonar or whatever. Audacity is not going to do it for you in the long run.

Also, as I said before, you need to come up to speed on recording, period. You've got to take the time to read and learn. read read read!!! If you don't make the investment, you aren't going to make the gain.
 
Chili said:
I still think you should get through the learning curve for Cubase or Sonar or whatever. Audacity is not going to do it for you in the long run.

Also, as I said before, you need to come up to speed on recording, period. You've got to take the time to read and learn. read read read!!! If you don't make the investment, you aren't going to make the gain.
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I'd say yes and no to that

Learning by doing is more powerful than just dry reading. If you can't do because the hardware/software is in the way then all the dry reading in the world is no help.
Audicity, FL, Acid music studio all are lite versions that are not "Pro" in functional but they get you going and it sounds like Dr V is already familiar with some of them. The learning curve for Sonar/Cubase or whatever once you're up and running and with actual experience under your belt is far less so than starting from scratch all over again (especially if you have a bad taste in your mouth from a terrible first experience)

But of course it's also horses for courses so your experience may differ :)
 
Dr. Varney said:
Or perhaps I would like to record into FL Studio, to make a song.
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This would be just fine. I haven't used Edison, which is the reccomended recording method that comes with FL, but recording to the playlist is very easy to do. I take it you've already played around with FL a bit, since you seem to prefer it? It's a great program and I'm not sure why there's no forum for it here.

If your main instrument is guitar, I highly reccomend something from Line 6. Not sure what the latest is, but I use the UX2. This acts as a soundcard and allows you to use Podfarm amp modelling - just plug your guitar in and get great sounds...

You also mentioned keyboard, so I gotta throw in that eventually you're going to want to learn how to record midi data from your keyboard as opposed to the audio. You've made it clear that you don't know where to start with most of this stuff... Don't worry about learning it right away, but it will make things way easier once you do.
 
Thanks for being so patient with my pathetic whinging, guys! I'm really quite positive about learning new stuff but have a tendency to feel despondant if I get knocked back and I sense the DSP is really just bringing out the worst in me. That's not good for a newbie who needs all the confidence he can muster. I can certainly appreciate just how flexible the E-MU 0404 is for someone who's cut his teeth already and wants to take recording a stage further.

Maybe I will look at a simpler device with clear enough sound then stow the 0404 in it's box and get it out later. I don't think wanting to make my own music is a passing fad, more like a deep-seated desire.

The Fast-Track-Pro is actually the device I was eyeing up, when the 0404 came up as a friend was selling it cheap. He's an advanced musician who prefers the Roland Fantom-G so I think this says something. He couldn't get on with it and actually figured I would make a better job of it!

Dr. V
 
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I Got Riffs said:
This would be just fine. I haven't used Edison, which is the reccomended recording method that comes with FL, but recording to the playlist is very easy to do. I take it you've already played around with FL a bit, since you seem to prefer it? It's a great program and I'm not sure why there's no forum for it here.
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I appreciate there are limitations and valid reasons why FL is considered an amateur suite but those limitations aren't apparent to me, when I'm using it, which says to me it's right for now.

I never had any latency issues with FL because everything I did with it was internal. I only bought the 0404 so I could record with zero latency.

Dr. V
 
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I've been using it pretty heavily for about a year and haven't found any real limitations.

As far as latency goes, it all depends on your settings. I don't think any modern device would create more latency without also offering a way to compensate for it. In the case of my Line 6 gear, I monitor my guitar sound with zero latency. Podfarm runs as a standalone, so I can use it to just jam on even without a DAW. When I'm recording into FL, I'm still monitoring the pre, rather than what's going into FL's mixer(which would add a bit of latency). But the recorded sound will be identical to what I hear, given I haven't put any effects in the mixer. The mixer has a latency compensation setting that's just one simple click and I'm good to go. So it's like recording from an amp in my room. It's always on and I can hear it no matter what settings I change in the DAW. So the sound/guitar tone is predetermined and you can record it however you like. The basic settings are very easy to use.

A more advanced setting/technique is that I can record the dry signal from my guitar, while still monitoring my favorite tone/effects. The purpose of this is that I can use it as an effect(Podfarm plugin version was available for free during September, but I think it's like $100) in the mixer of the DAW to choose a guitar tone AFTER my track has already been recorded. This is a similar concept to recording midi data that I mentioned earlier. Both techniques virtually eliminate the need to rerecord a good performance for the sake of tone/preset. In the case of midi, you can even record a bad performance and fix it later. Priceless :)
 
the M-audio Delta 44.

so far my experience has been great.
very straight forward and easy to use.
seems like it can also be very complex for when i get more knowledgeable with recording.
 
Dr. Varney said:
Thank you.

Dr. V
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Check out "Record" by Propellerhead, which would make a nice transition into Reason. Interfaces are easy after that. What kind of computer do you have? other usb/FW devices? Give me a call at work if you want, I'll help you.
 
Thanks, Smogger...

Anyway today I turned a corner! A rather big one, in fact.

Thought I had something going but the girlfriend was tapping her foot (and I don't mean to the music...). She wanted a night out, so I left it, got pissed (recharged) and slept on what I thought I had learned from FL Help the night before.

Morning came, couldn't wait to get downstairs. Got down there around 8am and by 9 I'd actually cut a track with two guitars and some drums!

Now I thought, that's pretty good, but it was to get better...

Kriss, sound engineer friend came over at 4pm, as promised and took me through the DSP Patchmix. Yes, he said - some of it is rigged back-to-front and since I have a physical mixing desk, we've routed everything to give me a few options.

DSP Patchmix is set to it's absolute minimum number of strips needed to get sound in and out. All FX, sends and bells and whistles disabled.

I now have a couple of routing options, just by pressing buttons on the mixer. I can listen WITH or WITHOUT mixer-born FX and choose whether I want to send them into the recording mix or not.

Okay, so it's Fruity Loops but I feel totally at home with it and it's doing everything I want it to do at the moment. So I'm gonna stick with it a while longer.

That sorts the guitar, a means of creating drums and synth tracks and I've been offered a decent mic for a nice price.

Think the most important lesson has to be finally understanding the concepts of Wave L/R and ASIO. I got a little potted history off him and some inside tech knowledge, so that's good. This has just doubled my enthusiasm for music!

Next up, I guess most of my questions will be about MIDI and connecting my Roland keyboard controller. It's good that I can relax now and move on to the next stage.

So, all in all - a pretty damned good day, I'd say... So kick back, open a bottle and let's celebrate... :) :cool:

And of course - most of all, thanks to you guys for pointing me in all the right directions. Much appreciated!

Sincerely

Dr. V
 
well done Doc
PartySmiley.gif



I look forward to your first mix in the mp3 forum :)
 
Smogger said:
Check out "Record" by Propellerhead, which would make a nice transition into Reason. Interfaces are easy after that. What kind of computer do you have? other usb/FW devices? Give me a call at work if you want, I'll help you.
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I did. It's fantastic! Thing is, I'm not planning on spending any more on software just yet. I love the "Made for musicians, not sound engineers" phrase.

Computer is a few years old. Athlon 64+ 2.41 GHZ with 2GB RAM and a 300GB SATA drive with USB external storage.
 
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