Really Quiet Vocal mic

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tmix

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I have been recording some (soft) spoken word (over soft music) type tracks lately (AT-4033 thru Mackie vlz pre) and have had to contend with the self noise of my own system.
I have recently gotten the RNP which helps but I could use suggestions on a mic with a really low self noise. I don't care if it is a dynamic or condensor, as long as it is clear without being prone to sibilance.

Any suggestions?
Obviously the less expensive (under $500.00) the better.

tmix
 
Do you have any gates!!?? Perhaps incorporating a gate with a slow response MIGHT help until you find that right mic.
 
Rode NT1000. I have one and it is very quiet. Extremely nice for recording speech as well.

Blessings, Terry
 
tmix, before you throw money at the problem, you might want to be sure and isolate the source. I don't recall the 4033 being a noisy mic at all, although it's been a couple of years since I've used one. Are you sure the noise is the mic's fault?

If I were you I'd borrow another mic or two and make sure that the 4033 is the culprit before buying anything. It could be simply a matter of gain structure on your mixer (trim too low, faders too high to compensate - in the process boosting the electronic noise floor of the mixer to annoying levels.) Could also be outboard effects adding noise, if you are using any.

Worth checking before buying.
 
Thanks

Thanks for the Ideas!
Stefan
I have tried the TLM-103 and you are right, it is exactly what I was looking for.
Right now the best deal I can find on one with shockmount is $650.00.
Not too awful but presently out of my budget.

MISTERQCUE
I have tried gating / downward expansion,etc with the crappy DBX 266xls I have but they didn't close smooth enough so you hear the sputters as the gates worked.
This should work but I need a better gate / compressor. I have a FMR RNC on order but I don't think it has a gate. So I need to keep my eyes open for a good gate.

Terry-I don't know anything about the Rode NT1000 but it is worth me looking into.
so far I have heard mostly good things about the latest offerings from Rode.
 
Good call, Pocito Pero. I can't imagine how a 4033, with 12dBA self noise, could be the problem, unless of course this particular 4033 has a problem. Time to trace the signal path and see where the noise is really coming from. Check cables, and also consider EMI induced noise. Balanced cables may be needed, and/or a noise source tamed. And certainly review the gain staging.
RD
 
Three other possibilities to help avoid sibilance;
1) EV RE20 dynamic
2) Studio Projects TB-1 (per latest issue of Tape OP gear review)
3) Beyer M88TG (very slightly less bright than M88)

I've read that the Neumann TLM-103 is somewhat "bright",
probably wouldn't be first choice on my own voice either.
The Rode NT1000 is also a fine sounding microphone, however,
it's also bright sounding. Tends to work better on female vocalists
according to several end users I've talked to.

By the time you add any digital reverb, and assuming you are on a
digital recording system, this "brightness" starts adding up and can
cause problems with sibilant and/or "bright" voices. I know it firsthand
becauses I'm one of them! The TB-1 and M88TG combo could be had for
$500 or less and would cover much ground in this regard.

Chris
 
Thanks again

You bring up some good points.
My most current path is AT4033 (balanced) to RNP then 6 ft of unbalanced 1/4 inch to Delta 1010 input.
In order to get enough signal on computer I am boosting gain to about 30db. The voice talent is in a very quiet booth but i hear gain hiss none the less. It was a lot more with my mackie, so perhaps i am getting noise from cabling or EMI or ?.

I notice when I switch to a dynamic mic like my sm57 it is nearly dead quiet. I need to try one of my Cad E-100s.

Thanks again for the input. Sometimes I get tunnel vision and can't see that I generally have a lot more options than just throwing more money at something. (Which I generally don't have to throw).

tmix
 
tmix

Try using a balanced lead between the RNP and the Delta.

On the mic question.... Rode has jus released a new version of the NT1 which "they say" is one of the quietest mics ever made. YMMV

The reason your SM57 is quiet is because dynamic mics are nowhere near as sensitive as condensers.

Mark
 
I'd agree with everyone else that a new mic is probably not a sure fix. Are you sure the hiss isn't in your monitoring system? I wonder if you may be a little too critical. It's almost impossible to have no hiss at all. I say almost because the only way to acheive close to that is with very expensive power conditioning.

When you play the recordings on other systems is the hiss any greater than a similar recording?
 
Markd102 said:
The reason your SM57 is quiet is because dynamic mics are nowhere near as sensitive as condensers.
Click to expand...

Actually a dynamic has a lot more self noise than a condensor. A condensor, being more sensitive, is less prone to self noise but it will pick up much more ambient noise.

Which may mean the problem is really air flow or some other source of ambient noise in your vocal booth.
 
TexRoadkill said:
Which may mean the problem is really air flow or some other source of ambient noise in your vocal booth.
Click to expand...

That would be my guess as well.

Either that or your mic is shot. Might want to do a little more side-by-side testing in some different environments.

Also, if you're having some sibilance problems, you might want to just go with the 57 and a pop filter. Nothing wrong with it at all on voiceover-type work. If you plan on doing more of that in the future, I'd highly recommend springing some extra bucks for a Shure SM7. It's been sort of a darling in the broadcast industry like forever.
 
My understanding is that (good) dynamics have LESS self-noise
than condensers. IIRC, seen them chart at more than a 110dB
signal to noise ratio. All the same, your condensers shouldn't sound that hissy anyway.

The other possibility to help would be to use balanced XLR's out of the RNC, then use a transformer to put it back at -10 when it
hits the sound card (like what Mark said). Does the RNP have balanced outs?
(saves me looking it up!)

Chris
 
chessparov said:
My understanding is that (good) dynamics have LESS self-noise
than condensers. IIRC, seen them chart at more than a 110dB
signal to noise ratio. All the same, your condensers shouldn't sound that hissy anyway.

The other possibility to help would be to use balanced XLR's out of the RNC, then use a transformer to put it back at -10 when it
hits the sound card (like what Mark said).
Click to expand...

He did say his RCA was only 6 feet, so I wouldn't imagine that would be a problem. And although good dynamics will often have less self-noise, they do require a good deal more gain from the preamp to bring them up to proper levels, so the preamp's self-noise becomes much more of an issue there. And from what I gather, the RNP wasn't designed to be really quiet. That's not to say that it's noise would ever be a problem . . . unless you're miking the sound of mice and mosquitos, that is. :D
 
i record an AT4033 into a mackie 1604vlz pro into a tango24/wavecenter card (pc is in the adjacent closet). i don't have a noise problem, and the only time i get anything close to sibilance is when i don't use a pop filter.

having said that, i have never recorded spoken word. i've done some very quiet slow jams.
 
My first thought is its room noise. Is your mic in a dead quiet iso booth?
 
I may be overly critical

I'd better jump back in and say, I'm probably just being overly critical.
I record radio spots and album projects regularly and the noise has never been an issue. I have tried 4-5 different condensors (AKG-CAD-AT) and they are within 2-3 db of each other when set to the same gain ( approx 40 db). I switched cables at every point and achieved a little better quietness (is that a word?) I am going to make up some balanced cables to run where I have unbalanced.

I believe the problem is the voice parts are so incredibly gentle and quiet that I'm probably hearing the blood rushing through her veins. It's like when you have solo'd a vocal part to work on it and you are listening to a section where they are waiting out you can hear or sense some ambient energy/ noise going on then when you hit the end of the clip it goes to dead quiet. When her vocal parts come in and out in the mix it's like someone opening and closing a door as far as background ambiance. Her voice does'nt just float in and out like I want. Perhaps my booth is not as quiet as I think it is, I have never taken a meter to it. But if I have open mikes in the booth with no-one in it the meters read about -84 to-79 db.

Anyway I appreciate all the Ideas I may try the dynamic mic route because the lady is very prone to sibilance and my pop screen alone at the close distance she is has not eliminated it enough. I'll keep "plugin" along.

tmix
 
I wish my recording area was even -79dB.
My guesstimate is that it's between -65dB and -70dB (if that).

Chris
 
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