really nice pianos

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wes480

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wishful thinking here, but..if you were buying a top of the line grand piano for your studio - what would it be?

Steinway, Baldwin, Yamaha...maybe Bosendorfer?

kind of curious about Bosendorfer...they seem really nice?

what kind of preferences do you have?

i saw Tori Amos playing a very smoothe looking Bosendorfer...don't know anything about them.
 
Lookee here...

Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini...(sigh)

Check this out. Kawai RX-2. 5'10" grand with a pianist's action. This is an incredibly responsive instrument. Street price is usually negotiable (meaning you fight like hell), but can be available under $20K.

http://www.kawaius.com/rx2.htm

:cool:
 
If you're thinking of a Grand Piano for a studio, don't get anything under 6'. Smaller grands simply don't have the tone compared to the larger ones. If you trry to record a 4'-11" or 5'-2" grand, you're going to be sorely dissapointed.

Baldwins are ok pianos, but unless you get get the concert size, they're really just living room pianos and not the best choice for a studio.

Stay away from Young Chang, Petrof, and Chickering. Unless the Chickering is a older model from the 1900's; the newer remakes are crap!

Kawai's are OK, but I don't like the action on them.

Bosendoffer's are awesome piano's but an entry level 6'- 7' is going to cost about $70,000. Maybe more.

I have a Boston 7'-2" semi concert grand. Boston's are Steinway's massed produced piano. Steinway's are hand made one at a time, much like a Rolls Royce. So the Boston is an excellent choice at a great price point. I paid $36,000 for my Boston, and it's Steinway counterpart would run upwards of $50,000.
I've seen used or antique Steinways go for less than $10,000, but nothing in the concert series/size.

Yamaha "C" series pianos are great pianos. A C7 would be a fantastic Grand for a studio. Sometimes you can find Yamaha "C" series pianos on what's known as the grey market.
These are pianos that were made in Japan, for the Japanese market. (Different finishes and lacquers for the American market.)
Usually, someone living abroad in Japan buys one of these pianos, and then comes back to the US and sells it. They're cheaper because there's no import taxes levied against it.

Be advised though, Yamaha's are Brite pianos, well suited for jazz and/or rock, but fall short when playing classical music because their tone isn't warm enough for classical music.

If you're going to buy a used piano, spend a 100 bucks and have a qualified technician look it over.

Honestly, I'd like to have 2 grands for the studio. The Boston I now have and a Yamaha C7. That would cover a lot of bases!
 
Oh yeah, I forgot, Bosendoffer's have a full 8 octaves as opposed to the 7-1/3 octave range of other pianos. That gives the piano 96 keys, I believe, instead of the usual 88 keys.

A high end piano is much like a high end automobile. They require a lot more maintenance than their cheaper counterparts.
I have mine tuned and regulated at least 5 times a year, sometimes more.

They are fickle instruments and cold, heat, and humidity have a BIG effect on their tone.

Still, the power, and majesty of this truly magical instrument makes it all worth while!
 
The best grand I have ever touched was a Bösendorfer 290, and it was just incredible! But I don't think you absolutely need one of those to get a decent piano sound. :D

And, yes they have an extended register in the bass down to C. And it looks rather cool because the color of those keys is inverted! (And you can hide them under a small lid so you wont use them by accident! :))
 
TexRoadkill said:
I sold Schimmel pianos a while back. They were beautifully built and had a bit more of a delicate sound to them compared to Steinway or Bosendoffer. Very nice.

http://www.schimmel-piano.de/e/home.html
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I have played on Schimmel's before. They are very nice pianos.
Kind of a sleeper in the piano market. I forgot about those.
 
Hey, Michael -

Kawai's are OK, but I don't like the action on them. . .

I have a Boston 7'-2" semi concert grand. Boston's are Steinway's massed produced piano
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Any idea who builds those Bostons?

One guess...














Yep. Kawai builds every Boston piano for Steinway at its own plant. Steinway developed the specs in connection with Kawai. :D


By the way, the Boston is an absolutely beautiful instrument! A 7'2" Boston must make your heart stop!!
 
Tree -
I've heard that before, but I still percieve a difference in the action. Must have to do with the spec's.
 
I keep trying to talk my mom out of her Steinway, but she won't budge. I got dibs on it when she goes, but hopefully that won't be for a very very long time yet.

It's over a 100 years old, and could use a refinishing, but damn it sound good.
 
Dumb question - has a manufacturer ever tried to market a graphite piano, or at least one that uses graphite for the components that most affect tuning stability?


Kind of like the Rainsong guitar.
 
interesting, I looked at the Bosendorfer site, it listed the models as having 88 keys.

But, that was just the "lower end" (ha) series.
 
I saw Tori Amos playing one on "Last Call" last night...

It was looong, at least 9', I don't know if they make them bigger than that?

But, Bosendorfer....I figured it had to be expensive. i didn't know they were leaps and bounds better than for instance, Steinway, though.
 
The main showroom for Steinway is on 57th Street in Manhattan. Both I and my girlfriend are pianists though she is more classically oriented than I. I, on the other hand, am professional and have gone to music school.

Anyway, we stopped into the Steinway showroom and played many of the pianos there. It was quite an experience. They are beautiful, remarkable, wonderful instruments. So nice, relaly so nice. If you were equiping a studio, you could not go wrong.

One issue to bear in mind might be the sound of the different types of pianos. Steinway, for example, is a traditional, classical piano sound whereas a Yamaha, for instance, may have a more modern and "brighter" sound.

By the way, I believe Boston Pianos are like the baby brothers of Steinways. In fact, I believe the Steinway showroom had a few of them in there. The do not in any way compare to Steinways and the back to back test I did confirmed this dramatically.
 
For rock or soft ballads I would choose the Yamaha C5 6'-7" grand that souds great for that kind of music. As Michael indicated, it is too bright for classical. I love the tone of that piano and I like the action better than Steinway. I played this model in college.

Steinway or Bösendorfer for classical music. Though I think the keys feel like mush on a new Steinway until they are broken in. That might take a few years. Very mellow and commanding tone.
I also played a Steinway in college, but I don't remember the model or exact size. It was around 8'. Because of the different actions between the two pianos I always did better on the Yamaha.

It was looong, at least 9', I don't know if they make them bigger than that?
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I think the longest Steinway makes is the 9'-11" Concert Grand. I'd hate to have to move it.
 
Buying a piano is kind of like looking for a mate. Every one is going to have their own unique personality, and sometimes differences within a brand can be just as significant as differences between brands.

With that understood, if I had to generalize based on my own limited personal experience:

•I would take a Yamaha over a Kawai any day. Brand new, they can sound very similar, but Kawai's just don't seem to be as mechanically robust. There's usually no contest between a 10 year old Yamaha and a 10 year old Kawai. Both, of course, tend to be very much on the "bright" side.

•Bösendorfer is by no means a "better" piano than a Steinway. It's a matter of taste. And only certain models have the "extra" keys. I've found Steinways, in general, to have more "power" or punch. You can really make them roar. But it's hard to beat the Bös for really delicate pianissimo playing.

•If you like a rounded bell-like sound, it's hard to beat a really good old Mason & Hamlin.

•I have never played a Baldwin that I really liked. Especially any built in the last 30 years. Perhaps at one time they were a first class piano. But their typical piano today just doen't cut it.

Just one pianist's opinions...
 
Michael Jones said:
If you trry to record a 4'-11" or 5'-2" grand, you're going to be sorely dissapointed.
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Why is that? Why won't a 5'-2" piano that sounds great record well? If I like the way it sounds when I play it, why won't I like the way it sounds when I record it? No one expects it to sound like a 7'-2" Steinway.

Stay away from Young Chang, Petrof, and Chickering. Unless the Chickering is a older model from the 1900's; the newer remakes are crap!
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The Young Chang and Chickering I can understand. Their reputations are not great. But according to the last two editions of the "Piano Book" which compiles ratings from piano techs across the country, Petrofs are one of the best values in pianos available. The QC is not as good as Yamaha (whose is?), and they are not as easy to work on or tune, but an experienced tech can make them sing, and the good ones sound fabulous.

Yes, I am the proud owner of a 5'-2" Petrof baby grand.:D

And I wouldn't trade it for a Yamaha C series (they hurt my ears). Never.:D
 
Usually string length is the limiting parameter in small grands - if the piano is too short you may actually end up with more value/string length buying an upright.

Once bass strings get too short, in order to reproduce the appropriate pitch they have to have much less tension on the string than a longer piano would have, whcih definitely affects tone.

For me, under best circumstances, 5'6" would be the absolute MINIMUM length grand that could even approximate the tone of a "real" grand. And in practise, it's usually more like 5'10" in all but the most exceptional pianos.

With all due respect to your Petrof piano which you obviously love, I have never heard a 5'2" grand that has any kind of musical sounding low end. But, I also admit i have never seen, heard or played a Petrof. (Who makes them and where?) So perhaps they have made some sort of technological breakthrough that allows a 5'2" to sound bigger than it is...
 
From my experience, strictly as an engineer, not a player, Littledog's advice is exactly right. I would judge Yamahas a little better than he does, but it is all a matter of style and preference. I have spent a lot of time working on two very nice Yamahas, including a 9 foot which George Winston offered to buy within a few seconds of his first playing it. He is a Steinway endorser, and has played many great pianos. He wanted that one. (It was not for sale.) Our seven foot was even better from an audience point of view, though players seamed to prefer the nine. Pianos are really a very individual instrument. No two ever sound the same. The best choice is to go with a really good player, even if you are one yourself. If you need a piano for recording, you want to know what it sounds like from the audience perspective, as well as from the player’s perspective. The sound bouncing off the lid makes a huge difference in the sound.

Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
And I wouldn't trade it for a Yamaha C series (they hurt my ears). Never.
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You're not supposed to get your ears that close to the hammers!:D
 
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