Realistic Drum & Bass track

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dust

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Hi,

This is my first post in this forum. I'm trying to make a realistic acoustic Drum and Bass play from samples. I'm using LMMS and many sources of Drum and Bass samples, no other software, just vst effects in LMMS.

So far I have made basic mixing on the track, please visit:
https://soundcloud.com/bayo-10/lmms-realistic-drum-2

Any suggestion on how to enhance the performance?

Thanks!
 
Hi, thanks Miroslav!

Do you mean the snare? I will look for a way to vary the velocity..
 
Does LMMS have any 'room mics'? Besides the velocities, the thing that sticks out to me is that each thing sounds like it's in its own universe, like each cymbal was recorded separately and each drum was recorded separately. The hat is probably too loud and panned to the center (hats will be at least a little off center, opposite the ride cymbal)
 
Hi, thanks Jay!

each thing sounds like it's in its own universe, like each cymbal was recorded separately and each drum was recorded separately
Click to expand...

maybe because the samples were from different sources. If there's a topic about that in general mixing lesson, I would be happy to know what to do next to solve the issue. I chose each instrument because they sounds like my real drum.

Actually the hats panned a bit to right and the Ride a bit more to right, but I'll check again, thanks.
 
The hat and the ride are usually on opposite sides of the kit. I suppose there are no rules, but with as far apart as you have the crash cymbals, the hat seems too centered to be real.

The 'everything in it's own universe' thing is cause by two things:
1. The cymbal samples sound like they were recorded with a close mic pointed at the cymbal. That isn't how the are recorded on a drum kit, so it sounds a bit strange when they are as prominent in the mix as you have them.

2. There is a lack of room mic and/or overhead bleed. This is the thing that brings everything together as a kit

You have another couple things going on, like cymbal decay that just stops and things like that, which don't help.

In all reality, if you add the other instruments, dial back the volume of all the cymbals and maybe put a compressor on the drum bus, these sounds will work out just fine.

If you want something more realistic sounding, you will need more realistic sounding samples and an instrument that allows you to mix them like real drums. Something like Steven Slate Drums will help you achieve your goal

I would try to sell you my sample set, but I made them for Drumagog, which won't be easy to work with in your situation.
 
Thanks for comeback. I'm sorry I forgot to mention the purpose of what I'm doing with the experiment.
I'm trying to make a realistic Drum & Bass track for practicing with my Guitar at home and to record ideas of songs I wrote. What I mean by "realistic" is doesn't have to be a pro Drum programming like Drumagog. It's obvious that I can't make it to that level. So what I want to make is just, let's just say 'enough' for amateur ear. I will check the panning again and will learn more about recording real Drum.
 
Well...if it's just for you to practice along with, and you like how it sounds...then does it really matter how realistic they are or what anyone else thinks? :)

We assume you want them for actual recordings you are working on.

I'll make it real easy for you...by EZ Drummer 2...and you'll be happy, and less muss-n-fuss. It's the perfect tool for songwriters who want quick, decent drum tracks, and who are not totally concerned with absolute realism, though the EZD2 samples sound pretty good, and all you need to do is work up the grooves to fit your needs.
 
Well...if it's just for you to practice along with, and you like how it sounds...then does it really matter how realistic they are or what anyone else thinks?
Click to expand...

Yes, it does. I still need to learn the basic knowledge from expert, I need to know what is right or not.
I will stick with recent software for now, but I'll consider to buy a new one.
 
Here's the thing. A lot of what seems 'fake' about the drums at this point will go away once you add the guitars and vocals. You would be amazed at how obviously edited and sample replaced a drum track can sound before it is put in the mix.

Depending on the style of music you listen to, you may be hard pressed to find anything in your collection that was recorded in the last 10 years that actually has real drums on it. Even back as far as the 80's there was a lot of replacement and/or straight up programmed drum parts on music that should be played by a drummer.

sidebar story: 25 years ago, one of my favorite kick drum sounds was the one on Stryper's To Hell With the Devil album. I tried every combination of drums, mics, EQ compression, etc... to try to get that sound. I could get close, sort of.

Around 1993 I found it. It was a stock sound in a Ddrum sound module.

Not everything is as it seems.
 
dust said:
Yes, it does. I still need to learn the basic knowledge from expert, I need to know what is right or not.
I will stick with recent software for now, but I'll consider to buy a new one.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you said that.
Good for you...get the most you can out your tracks.

I'm not familiar with the software you are using...but I do know that something like EZ Drummer will get you there...well, easy. :)

From there...you can move to Superior Drummer, which is my drum app of choice when I'm not tracking my studio drum kit.
The stuff from Steven Slate is also top-notch...and there at least a couple of other drum apps that will help you get pro levl tracks.

The "realism" thing is up to you. Most of these apps have terrific samples of real drums...but it's all in the MIDI grooves that you create AFA realistic sounding drum tracks.
That said....Jay is correct...you don't have to go nuts and get into the minutia for most mixes, as all the other tracks will mask a lot of that. The key stuff are the selection of samples and their ambience and the ramdom feel of the velocities and the grooves. Get that sorted with the basics...Kick, Snare, Hat....and then toss in some realistic fills...and your there.
 
Farview said:
sidebar story: 25 years ago, one of my favorite kick drum sounds was the one on Stryper's To Hell With the Devil album. I tried every combination of drums, mics, EQ compression, etc... to try to get that sound. I could get close, sort of.

Around 1993 I found it. It was a stock sound in a Ddrum sound module.

Not everything is as it seems.
Click to expand...

Hey man, would you by chance have a sample of that still? I have a project I'm working I think that could sound great on. :)
 
Farview said:
Here's the thing. A lot of what seems 'fake' about the drums at this point will go away once you add the guitars and vocals. You would be amazed at how obviously edited and sample replaced a drum track can sound before it is put in the mix.

Depending on the style of music you listen to, you may be hard pressed to find anything in your collection that was recorded in the last 10 years that actually has real drums on it. Even back as far as the 80's there was a lot of replacement and/or straight up programmed drum parts on music that should be played by a drummer.

sidebar story: 25 years ago, one of my favorite kick drum sounds was the one on Stryper's To Hell With the Devil album. I tried every combination of drums, mics, EQ compression, etc... to try to get that sound. I could get close, sort of.

Around 1993 I found it. It was a stock sound in a Ddrum sound module.

Not everything is as it seems.
Click to expand...

Really? I thought faking Drum on recording is a new tech. lol
Thank you for this precious story.

I never thought about how my fake Drum track will sound combined with other real instrument, maybe it'll be enough for practice with Guitar but I don't know about record a song with that. Ya maybe I should consider to buy a Drum replacer.
 
jimmys69 said:
Hey man, would you by chance have a sample of that still? I have a project I'm working I think that could sound great on. :)
Click to expand...

Sorry. I don't have that drum brain anymore. I got rid of it a decade before I started making samples. What I would do in the old days was run the kick track into the input of the drum brain and record the output. It's the manual, hardware version of Drumagog.: )
 
dust said:
Really? I thought faking Drum on recording is a new tech. lol
Thank you for this precious story.

I never thought about how my fake Drum track will sound combined with other real instrument, maybe it'll be enough for practice with Guitar but I don't know about record a song with that. Ya maybe I should consider to buy a Drum replacer.
Click to expand...
No, drum replacement isn't new at all. Pantera was 60% triggers and samples on the Cowboys tour. Kiss was using samples live in the mid 80's. They were also using cabinet Sims live at the same time.

The only thing that is new is being able to do it that cheaply.
 
miroslav said:
I'm glad you said that.
Good for you...get the most you can out your tracks.

I'm not familiar with the software you are using...but I do know that something like EZ Drummer will get you there...well, easy. :)

From there...you can move to Superior Drummer, which is my drum app of choice when I'm not tracking my studio drum kit.
The stuff from Steven Slate is also top-notch...and there at least a couple of other drum apps that will help you get pro levl tracks.

The "realism" thing is up to you. Most of these apps have terrific samples of real drums...but it's all in the MIDI grooves that you create AFA realistic sounding drum tracks.
That said....Jay is correct...you don't have to go nuts and get into the minutia for most mixes, as all the other tracks will mask a lot of that. The key stuff are the selection of samples and their ambience and the ramdom feel of the velocities and the grooves. Get that sorted with the basics...Kick, Snare, Hat....and then toss in some realistic fills...and your there.
Click to expand...

Thank you Miroslav! and ya I will surf google for EZ Drummer.
 
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