Real Violin - Fem Vox - Americana Rocks #3

studioviols

studioviols

New member
Available here, http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=3196&alid=-1 , once again Austin, Texas hometown favorite and Nationally Acclaimed former lead singer for 'Sister Seven' ... rocker Patrice Pike ... this time performing 'Lincoln Continental' live at the Saxon Pub on 6th street in Austin.

I have added a Violin track in this song's rocking Americana style.

This MP3 is primarily for user critique of my Violin playing, recording and mixing skillz.

This will be used as DEMO to Patrice Pike as I'm hoping she will include me as part of her touring 'line-up', and in her studio work, as a result of my continuing demo to her, (playing violin, viola and cello).

The violin in this track is closed miced with a vintage lavalier type fender microphone. the mic is mounted through a hole I drilled in the chinrest. The hypercardiod mic is pointed at the base of the brigde, behind the bridge, in between the F-holes.

While providing for a condenser sound, a good acoustic sound, the mic placement is designed to get a lot of rosin sound and bite, and less 'wood'.

Several different sonic presentations of the violin are attempted here while striving to maintain a 'live part' that could be reproduced live.
 
Thanks for the ears

Hey Jake,

Well, it's done live, and I downloaded the MP3 from Patrice Pike's site and then added my violin track, so it's doubly compressed and of course, I don't have access to the original 'resource' tracks ... only the violin track.

Thanks again for listening.
 
studioviols: Man you are good. Not only at playing, but recording, mixing. It sounds like you were there when it was recorded. I like the sound of you fiddle. It has that Louisiana sound! The cello made me remember my friend John, who has been with Lyle Lovett for years. I wish I still lived in Austin, I could maybe help connect you with her. She must have come on the scene since I left (1996). I played the Saxton Pub often. Thanks for sharing. Walter Tore
 
Small, tiny, iddy biddy world

Wow, small world. Thanks for listening, you rescued me from oblivion and a sunday evening on the second page with that bump, and very nice comment, thanks. And I definitely have my sights set on moving to Austin.

As far as a portable multi-track solution for your field work and improvisational lifestyle, (a digital one), I think all we've really seen so far is the small, battery operated things that write a file in a proprietary format, and that's not real good, (but I'm no expert on these kind of things yet).

Best to stick with the mini-disc for now but keep your eyes peeled on this portable technology for your 'field work'. Another pitfall with the small portable digital multi-trackers is the ones that write as MP3 files, well you could concievably be trapped into a royalty situation, in other words, paying royalties to the owner of that file format ... just playing devil's advocate here.

You might be able to get a portable little mixer that is battery operated, or you could take one of those tablecloth like solar panels and set it out above you like an awning ! That would draw some tips and attention huh ? !! Feed a battery with it and power the mixer and a 4-Track with that. And if you were in Austin you would have plenty of sunlight huh, especially around this time of year. Oh yeah, be sure and fly to the location in a hovercraft or something ...

But seriously, about your field work here.

With a tiny-small portable 4-Channel mixer you could feed both the vocal and guitar into the mixer ... and then pan the guitar hard right, pan the vocal hard left, so as the mini-disc wrote the file, you would be writing all vocal on the left side of the stereo channel, and all guitar on the right side of the mini-disc's stereo channel. Then you could dump that to the computer and seperate the right and left channels leaving you with a track of mono guitar, and another track of mono vocal.

Now watch out for me ... one day I just might show up on your location, you'll see a guy about medium build, 6' 1", with light brown long hair walking towards you with either a big or small fiddle case, or maybe even a double, I'll just plop down next to you on the street, and I'll expect to have an open 1/4" jack to plug into ! ;-)

Mixing, mastering and burning will be my treat.
 
Studioviols,
Nice work. I will give you one small piece of advice though... take it for what it's worth. When you do this kind of thing, just try not to step on the other musicians. It's cool to have your part there, you just might want to back it off a bit and let that guitar sound off a little more. You did a really good job, it looks like you really are wanting this gig!


bd
 
bdbdbuck wins the rubber ducky

bdbdbuck, your honesty will serve you well. Actually I created a briar patch and you threw me in, thanks.

Of course the violin is to forward in the mix in many places.

I posted it this way because I need confirmation.

We all try to be kind to one another here out of respect, but honesty is the best friend.
 
Sounds very very nice Pat. But again, like in the last tune, I would lower your tracks before sending this to her. The violin as lead is louder than the vocal. You know better. :)
BUT, if you're looking for critique on the part itself and not how you've mixed it in, the part is very nice. Treading on the guitar solo though...and I don't mean that in terms of the mix. The line itself is getting in his way. But I don't like the guitar solo anyway, so... :)

You're a fine player, Pat. Looking forward to hearing Taken (at your leisure, of course)!
 
Taken first on the block

I've been collecting a few collabs from this board, and now I'm getting organized to start laying some track as that 'Step of Production' starts with 'Taken'.

I'm looking foward to posting our collab here.
 
I dig the tune a lot. Stylistically, it's something I'd listen to.

The violin was mixed a bit too hot, but I guess that's how you intended it for this forum for now.

I liked the phrasing of the violin part - there's always a temptation to overplay, and you didn't fall for that trap. It wasn't so understated either in that you still kept it interesting. What did you use to record it - mic, preamp, etc.?
 
Curious cellist :-)

Yes, the violin was mixed about 3db to hot, in some places more. I expected to get a much stronger critique on that point from board members to help me justify burying it even more, but I have to balance that with making sure they can 'hear my playing' on this demo.

I used a vintage Fender, Lavalier 'condenser' micophone. The mic is nearly 20 years old. The preamp was the ones onboard my Mackie 1202 as well as the phantom power, and I'm upgrading to a Mackie VLZ 1202 with the XDR preamps ASAP, I hear they are really sweet for vocals and instruments in general. It was recorded into an Echo Mia Audiocard and then into SONAR. I had forte grade steel strings on the instrument.

The little mic is mouted on the end of a heavy duty, thick wire. That wire is mounted through a hole I DRILLED in my ... chinrest ... Had ya going there didn't I ?

So the mic comes from the chinrest and hovers just behind the bridge. It is a hypercardiod and it is pointed at a spot near the base of the bridge. My intention is to get some of the sound of the top, and some of the sound of the base of the bridge, and also what little ambient sound that developes between the f-holes in that area. I also want a more focused sound and some bowhair sound, some of that good rosin on the string sound which is difficult if not impossible to get micing the ambience of the instrument with say a large diaphragm condenser, 'near micing' in a small hot room.

The only drawback to this is you get a fairly focused sound with edge ... without much ambience and the development of complex harmonics, say in a small hot room with 'near' micing as opposed to this ultra 'close' micing. Also, the intonation must be deadly accurate, and it was a lot of hard work to get that track, I'm still not completely satisfied with the intonation.

This would be an approximation of the live sound I would get with the band playing onstage with them, and that is one of the most important intentions of the demo. When I go to Austin and sit in with this band or artist(s), what they hear in the monitors and the PA should be nearly exactly what they hear on the MP3.

This is a close micing technique and about as close as it can get.
I intend to record with a fishman floating bridge pickup also at some point and point the Fender condenser into the bass bar side pickup, and send both MONO tracks at the same time to give me the f-hole color to mix with the ultra-focused bridge sound from the fishman ... two different tracks, but for now KISS.

The little lavalier mic has a good flat 20-20 response, although in a live situation it would encounter some feedback problems at high volumes. But for the purposes of this mix, the first time I sit in with them is going to be in small venue, low volume settings. I'll be using outboard reverb and delay to simulate the small amount of effect I used in this mix, again in an attempt to duplicate what is hear faithfully when onstage live with the band or artist(s). Then of course that sounds can be imported directly into the studio for a good hook between the live sound of the band or artist(s) and the studio production.

I could get a much more 'beautiful' sound in a small room with 'near' micing with a larger diaphragm condenser and I'm going to use this technique for some collabs here, especially when doing a 'section' sound for a string wash across parts of a song. Using near micing in a small room gives me a lot more room to use a much wider and different types of vibrato to sweeten the sound also.
 
very tasteful and a really nice tone on the violin. The slow gliss at 1:38 sticks out a tad but smooths from there. Cello..., sweet.

Ken
 
Time Markers

Thanks for the 'absolute marking' on your comment, now I can actually go back into the piece and 'absolutely refer' to that position in the song.

I hope more of us start using the time marking in the song to refer to what we are hearing in the mix.

Thanks for the listen.
 
LINCOLN log

Gtr tone in the intro is a bit middy for my tastes... again, a monoish mix... guess that's OK.

She's got a great voice, eh? Sounds like what one might imagine Jodie Foster's singing voice would sound like... IMO :)

Really nice song... as far as the recording... maybe I'm "new fashioned"... but the stereo spread sure helps things :D It's like a one-mic job. For such a production, it's really not bad.

Violin "recording" sounds fine; could use a bit of warmth...

Nice performances.


Chad
 
Nice playing

But, I agree with bdbdbuck. You're stepping on the original musician in places. Back off some. Remember she is out there doing it without you so she doesn't need you. You have to make her want you in the band. Ease your strings into her stuff but let the original shine through.

Your playing is great and I think it can easily add to the sound she has going on.
 
I won't comment on the violin being up fron in some places - it's been done. This has a dark groove that I really like. Some of the harmonies around 1:00 seem out, it's like she's trying to be Kate Bush but she's off.

Over-all though, I enjoyed it a lot.
 
Thank you board member

Thanks to all the board members who have responded here.

I think one of the most important comments so far is that I have to make and band or artist 'want' me to play with their band. I can't just rely on them 'wanting' live strings, they have to want what I am doing with these instruments, specifically.

I have to sell 'my' sound, not just the sound of these instruments and the parts I've written here.

Just being able to play these three instruments well is not going to get me in a band making a living and touring.

Just as any good salesman knows ... it has to be 'their idea', and you have to leave open the possibility for them to 'think it up themselves' while planting the right seeds.

The violin part here needs to be mixed way, way back in almost all of the parts : here's my plan :

00:08 - 00:23 , here I have an opportunity to introduce to them that I can play a lead on this instrument, and I should take that there, but I think I will whet their appetite even here by dropping this by 1-2 db.

At 00:28, I'm going to drop that fill about 1db. Because it is the first fill after the introduction of the violin in the piece, I want it to stand out.

At 00:33 this needs to come down about 5db and be way in the background. The violin should really recede from the piece at this point almost completely.

At 01:18, here is the real opportunity to 'solo' and I'll take that here, it's still probably about 1db to loud, maybe I'll compress a bit here.

At 01:39, this needs to be dropped 4-5db, it's another use of the same fill as earlier at 00:28, (in a different register outlining a different chord so that's probably contrast enough.)

At 01:45, that fill needs to drop about 2db.

At 02:01, that note is too loud, drop by 2-3db.

Coming into 03:30, here seems to be another opportunity to solo, but it's where the guitarist is taking his ride, so I need to re-write here possibly and develop a part that is unquestionably an accompaniement to the guitar, and of course drop the level.

At 03:16, my accompaniement to the two singers needs to come down 1db.

At 03:30 seems to be another opportunity to solo, but these are her 'HOOKS OUT' and I need to lay way, way back, down about 6-8db in most of it. I plan to mix it so that the the first 4 seconds, from 03:30 to 03:34 stand out as if I'm going to solo, and she has a vocal exclamation there, but just before she says 'In my head ... ' which is one of the primary hooks, I need to be way back in the mix, like a counter fill way underneath her and under the level of the guitar also.

At 03:48 to 03:51 ... I can bust out for a bit with that fill there but not at a solo level, just louder than the guitar and still under her vocal level. Then dropping down to that 'lowest level' again, and finally joining in at an equal level on the breakdown after her last statement of the hook 'In my head ... '

I hope you will all give another listen after I remix it for next weekend and see if I can accomplish what I've outlined.

Thanks again for the ears.
 
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