"Real" Tube Preamps...

  • Thread starter Thread starter ghetto3jon
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Check it out folks: go to the top of this thread and count em up. DJL derailed this thread by the 8th post. Everybody was contributing and commenting directly about the subject, and then look what DJL did to this thread.

Is this the kind of behaviour we should tolerate, when there is a totally on-topic thread, and then DJL comes in and disrupts the whole flow with a completely off topic post?

How long will this disrupting crap be allowed to continue here? Oh yeah, some 70 posts later, in the spin-off thread, he concludes: "Oh never mind - it's not worth bickering about".

WTF is it going to take to stop this shit? DJL loves to stir this kinda shit up. Is that really what all of you want? Maybe it's time to tell Dragon what you think, pro, or con. I've emailed him already. Maybe some of you should, too.

I've just about had it with DJL and the messes he causes over here.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
.

I've just about had it with DJL and the messes he causes over here.
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I must concur.... unless DJL is 60+ AND having no life his post can be exceptable (no offense to our older contributers), because anybody else that cares about the sh!t he cares about is either getting a peice of advertising dough or a STRAIGHT LOSER!!!!!!

and no i'm not a pimp....

DJL go find a girl or something....do a "Bud Bundy" if you have to
 
Could someone please rename this thread i thought it was about
tube microphone preamps.........


all the other forums i go to have moderaters.... doesn't this forum have any.
It clearly needs some..........
 
DJL is in his 60's... Dang No Hope for him at all. Bitter old Men.

No.. that was the Movie

Grumpy Old Men. LOL

Heck even Harvey and I disagree on gear but we dont fight about it we just leave opinions and discuss things related to the specific gesar that we dont see I to I on. DJL goes south for the Summer. LOL
 
Groove Tube's "The Brick"

I hate to sound like a broken record as of late regarding this issue, but I have been severely eyeing up the following tube preamp; The Brick, as it appears to be a great "entry level" real tube preamp. Only problem is, while I've received some feedback from folks who have indirect experience and/or opinions about The Brick (thanks Harvey!), I haven't heard any feedback from anyone who's worked with one directly.

However, I did discover that the local Guitar Satan *DOES* carry them in stock now (sadly they're the only local dealer that does :(), so I may take a mic or two down there and try it out. ...that is, once I have paid off my most recent gear purchases! :p

-mr moon
 
I've used the brick. but then i used it only on Bass and FAT is all I could say
 
giles117 said:
I've used the brick. but then i used it only on Bass and FAT is all I could say
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Thanks for the info. So, just to clarify: by "FAT" do you mean "dark" coloration of sound and fuzzy-ish tone which lacks definition? Or, do you mean more of a "solid" overall sonic footprint which maintains definition, so to speak?

When you tried The Brick on bass, was it DI or miced? (Dumb question, but good for me to ask as I usually just go DI when recording bass, ..or trout, but I should *not* assume everyone else does ;))

I would be using it to balance out the Safe Sound Audio P1 that I'm currently using for vocals and as a bass DI. The P1 is wonderful to work with, as I have found it to be very accurate, especially for the price! The Brick's primary use (at least as I think about it now) would be to have another preamp "color" available to use in case the P1 wasn't doing the trick on a certain vocal, guitar, and/or bass track.

-mr moon
 
Never dumb Questions.

Fat for me = Fullness, Great Definition and a BIGNESS. :)

The Bass was run Direct.
 
what warhead doesn't say is that the tubes are microphoinic in the a design. you can hear them ping when you flick the switches or tap on the box. when i called them about it they said they all do that because it's a ef86 tube and they're all microphonic. i tried to use it anyway but when i did overdubs in the control room and turned the monitors up loud the sound of the a design went to hell every thing started to have that ringing sound. it works good if i have a singer in another room and keep the monitors turned down low but if i try to turn up the monitors i can't use the a design
 
Mr. Moon said:
Thanks for the info. So, just to clarify: by "FAT" do you mean "dark" coloration of sound and fuzzy-ish tone which lacks definition? Or, do you mean more of a "solid" overall sonic footprint which maintains definition, so to speak?

When you tried The Brick on bass, was it DI or miced? (Dumb question, but good for me to ask as I usually just go DI when recording bass, ..or trout, but I should *not* assume everyone else does ;))

I would be using it to balance out the Safe Sound Audio P1 that I'm currently using for vocals and as a bass DI. The P1 is wonderful to work with, as I have found it to be very accurate, especially for the price! The Brick's primary use (at least as I think about it now) would be to have another preamp "color" available to use in case the P1 wasn't doing the trick on a certain vocal, guitar, and/or bass track.

-mr moon
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Mr Moon.........whussup? Long time no see. :)

War
 
Warhead said:
Mr Moon.........whussup? Long time no see. :)

War
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The boys and I have been doing mucho recording and mixing of some new material. BTW, the P1 has become my "go-to" preamp of choice for pretty much everything; vocals, bass, mandolin(sp?), and guitars. (Haven't tried it on drums ...yet ;)) The P1 gets better and better the more I use it!!

Hope 'bidnes is going well for you, both musically and otherwise!

-mr moon
 
Personally, I like it that people who are gear dealers have their store's site in their sig. Considering that the guys here, and on HC, don't EVER EVER say, "Hey, I sell this!" it proves that they know what they are talking about, and are just trying to help.
 
rocker said:
what warhead doesn't say is that the tubes are microphoinic in the a design. <SNIP>
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Rocker:
First let me say up front that I am the guy who works directly with Peter at A Designs and I am responsible for the things here in the USA. We do the same for GML, Daking, ATC, Soundelux, Brauner etc.

OK that's said so you know I am.

Here's the straight story on the A Designs. The problem is this:
1) tubes aren't microphonic in just the A Designs, tubes are microphonic in every design! That's what gives you the great guitar amp tone and ring in a guitar amp. Now the A Designs is purposefully a bare bones mechnical design and a high end audio circuit design. Real transformers input and output, real tube circuit (not some partially driven tube sidechain thingy) really nice sound-that costs money to do. Its meant to sound way better than anything else you can buy for the money. But the trade off is that you cannot have ALL the things possible, such as serious mechanical isolation of the audio boards and switches, chassis that null vibration, etc . There is this trade off but we believe it was the right one to make to offer people a choice they didn't have before.

2) Some tubes are more microphonic that others. The EF86 is one of those that is more microphonic. But in this design, its sound awesome. I can install a different tube that has less microphonics, but it sounds worse. What would you do? I say go for the sound.

3) You should not put any tube preamp in vibration prone locations: next to or under speakers or on consoles with speakers on them. Using tube pres in rooms with high SPL require some planning and forethought to decouple the vibration or [sound] pressure from mechanically impacting a tube preamp. Many other audio devices have vibration problems. CD burners are a great example. It comes down to the application: each time we dive in to the 4 or 5 direct complaints we have received, we hear about high SPL at the preamp or the A Designs was on the console bridge directly next to monitor speakers or was sitting directly in front of the speakers or even ON the speakers. In these unusual situations, we would recommend you NOT use any tube pre that is not seriously mechanically isolated from the source of the vibration.

4) We have many very high end users who have used the A Designs successfully, never a single complaint about microphonics. What are they doing different? The units are exactly the same.

5) It is possible to get low cost tube pres without mechanical sensitivity, but they don't sound anywhere near as good as an MP1. It becomes a trade off when the price is lower, to pick what you want: high end circuit design and parts or high end mechanical isolation. When the price is high, you can do it all and cover every possible user application. You can get both top end circuit design and top end mechanical isolation. This is what you get with a Fearn that costs 2.5 to 3 times what the A Designs costs. Doug does a great job with his units, I know many engineers who use them, but most people here would never be able to afford one.

6) We are working on units that have much more isolation, but it will raise the price of them all. Should the problem experienced in a rare situation or in a situation where the unit was never designed to be in the first place raise the price for everyone who has NOT had a problem? Its a problem for us to decide what's the best for all.

Hope the gives you some insight.

Brad
 
so what your saying is that the a design doesn't work because its cheaper to make a tube mic pre that doesn't work. i saved a lot of money on my a design pre i took it bak to the store and got my money back then i bought a pre i could use a manley. the manley wasn't that much more expensive sounded as good if not better than the a desing and it works great

i dont care what bigtime famous people you say are using it i tried it and it sucked. it made everything fuzzy from the tube vibrating and when i called them they said this was part of the deal

if i remember right they use that ef86 tube in a lot of mirocphones and those mics don't have that kind of problem. if they can make it so the tube doesn't have that problem in a microphone why cant they make the problem go away in a mir pre? would seem easier to me to do that, or do they just have the salesman come around to say that it's me and that all these famous people are using it so i should be happy with the bad sound?
 
rocker said:
what warhead doesn't say is that the tubes are microphoinic in the a design.
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And the reason I didn't say it is because I don't have a problem. I'm not saying you didn't, I'm saying I have not run into any issues using the A Designs gear and don't know of anyone else having issues beyond you.

Yes, there is a pinging when I move the switches but under no circumstances have I ever experienced an issue that you're describing. Brad mentioned placement for the preamp maybe being an issue if you're monitoring at high levels in the same room while tracking.

I also noticed after a burn in period it seems to be less sensitive to the pinging when flipping switches but again beyond that, I am not hearing it. Brad is saying they're looking at some different avenues and that's fine, and you returned your unit because it didn't work with your particular situation.

I stand by my statement that this is some wonderful sounding tube gear, but will add that under high decibel situations some isolation / strategic placement may be in order per Brad's statement. Hasn't affected me one bit, I know that doesn't make you feel any better but at least your dealer squared you away.

War
 
you havn't had the problem because your a salesman and don't use this stuff. i have a one room studio in my garage so when i play my bass or my guitar palyer plays his guitar or when we're recording the band were all in one room.

how are you supposed to use the wonderful sounding unit a situation like that or is this only for brad's hi end users. the soundelux mics have ef86 tubes in them where it's not a problem to hvae the mic in the same room with my bass. my friend has a u99 he lets me borrow which also uses a ef86 tube and theres no problem with that mic how come there is a problem wiht the pre

i think its that you just don't want there to be a problem so by glossing over it you think it will go away. the problem is veryreal and it fucked up some very good tracks of mine that i had to redo because of the preamp. sweeping it under the carpet mr. salesman won't do here.

for less money i got a two channel john hardy m1 and it sounded much better. it sounded better because i could record with it hwen i couldn't record with the a design and i need to finish my bands album.
 
rocker said:
you havn't had the problem because your a salesman and don't use this stuff.
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Please listen to what I'm saying and stop assuming I have not used the A Designs stuff. I have used it, and in both studios I have used it in (my project studio and a friend's pro studio) under normal circumstances it was fine. Read my above post. Most pros don't have to worry about a band being right next to the preamp etc. (my studio is a humble project studio and I'm not claiming to be a full time pro either) and the problems that would cause. Most pros are not monitoring at such blistering levels while tracking that it would have an effect on the unit.

You bought a solid state unit and no more problem, that's good for you. Nobody is saying A Designs is 100% perfect for every situation either.

Dude, I understand you're angry and it didn't work out for your one room situation, but don't throw around assumptions about anyone on these boards. I record also and get paid on occassion to do so!!

War
 
rocker said:
for less money i got a two channel john hardy m1 and it sounded much better.
Click to expand...


rocker said:
i saved a lot of money on my a design pre i took it bak to the store and got my money back then i bought a pre i could use a manley.
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Hmmmmmmm.....

War
 
rocker, how would you compare the DI on the John Hardy M-1 to the DI on the A Designs?
 
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