Real stupid ass ?? sorry!

  • Thread starter Thread starter rushfan33
  • Start date Start date
rushfan33

rushfan33

New member
I went to owenscorning.com and could not find anything that says 703.

Here's the link for Product Line-up.
What am I missing?
I did a search and almost saw what you guys were all talking about but the link that John provided didn't work for me.
Thanks,
RF
 
What are you trying to find out? I think your going to have to go through a local distributor anyway. They may not show it on the site because it is generally a commercial product.
 
Awesome! Thanks Tex!
I'm a little confused(still).... what is the stuff at Home Depot that's a styrofoam center with aluminum foil type surface? Is that sort of the same stuff?
THanks,
RF
 
Nope, different stuff. Rigid Fiberglass is very similar to regular fiberglass except it's rigid. I know that sounds like a smartass answer but it's the only way to describe it. It's still itchy and can easily break up. It looks or feels nothing like styrofoam.

Some Home Depots can special order it if you get lucky and they actually understand what you are talking about. Your best bet is to call OC's 800 number and ask for a Commercial distributor in your area. It's pretty painless.

There will be a minimum order. Here in Phoenix it was only $50 but some places are much higher.
 
.... what is the stuff at Home Depot that's a styrofoam center with aluminum foil type surface?...

That's sometimes called R-Matt or R-Max Its used on the exterior of buildings to aid in insulative "R" factors when you have a brick or stone exterior, as shown here. :D

Sometimes, rigid fiberglass is used in A/C ducts. Particularly in the return air vents.
At least, thats how it is in my house. But thats not 703, just rigid fiberglass. And the return air vent stuff is only about 1/2" thick whereas 703 is 3" thick.
 
Last edited:
rushfan33:

I think I may have a SoCal connection on this stuff. I recently did some drywall work on a mastering studio, and the guy who hooked us up with the job knows where to get the stuff. It ain't easy to come by in these parts. Guess it don't get cold enough 'round here.;)

Let me know if you need help, and I'll see what I can do.
 
"And the return air vent stuff is only about 1/2" thick whereas 703 is 3" thick." -

Actually, Michael, the 3 in 703 refers to the density of 3 pounds per cubic foot - the thicknesses that are available run from 1 to 4 inches in 1/2" increments. The 705 series (shoulda been called 706) is 6 PCF and is available from 1 to 3" thick.

I got those specs from a file called 700_series.pdf, which I THOUGHT must have come from the OC site - I just spent 15 minutes looking for it there, and no cigar; otherwise I would have posted the link. I must have found it on a re-seller's site and neglected to bookmark it, sorry -

Penance time - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron - Next time, bookmark it you moron -

OK, that'll probably help... :=)
 
knightfly said:
"And the return air vent stuff is only about 1/2" thick whereas 703 is 3" thick." -

Actually, Michael, the 3 in 703 refers to the density of 3 pounds per cubic foot - the thicknesses that are available run from 1 to 4 inches in 1/2" increments. The 705 series (shoulda been called 706) is 6 PCF and is available from 1 to 3" thick.
I acquiesce.
 
Don't try the OC 800#, what a joke. I had to talk to some guy in the mid west on a rubber phone(cellular), and what do you know, it cut out. This guy was trying to get the whole scoop on what I was trying to do.....um I need some 703's locally please. Well are you trying to make a home theater bla bla blah..

This was a couple years ago, so it may have changed.

I'm in San Diego, and yes the 703 is used commercially as a building code I guess.

Your best bet is to look inthe yellow pages under insulation contractors, supplies etc....

Wouldn't you know it, there was a supplier right down the street from my work. The main distributor warehouse is in LA for down hither among other products.
T
 
Thanks for all the replies!
M. Brane... If I'll need to, I'll surely drop you an email. It might a bit tough though as I'm in Northen Cal. I'll try the local markets first.

Now... for my next real stupid ass ??....
I play drums and I know that there's no way that I can get by without doing a room within a room. I play loud and with conviction! not something my neighbors can appreciate too much! :D

The makeup of my garage is stucco exterior on 2x4's spaced 24"oc. The 2x4's are exposed to the garage. After seeing John Sayer's site, I realized that money would allow me to do a room within a room with 8" bottom and top plates, staggered studs and 2 layers of 5/8"sheetrock, or 1 layer of 5/8" and 1 layer of 1/2" sheetrock on both sides of the new wall. What's not very clear is if I should insulate the 2x4's that the stucco is attached to, and sheetrock that as well!?
I do intend to build a floating floor also. Because my neighbors are so damn close, I have to worry about sound PROOFing first, and then I'll worry about the sound of the room later.

Thanks,
RF
 
rushfan33 said:
Thanks for all the replies!
M. Brane... If I'll need to, I'll surely drop you an email. It might a bit tough though as I'm in Northen Cal. I'll try the local markets first.

Hmmmm. For some reason I was thinking you lived down here. The offer still stands regardless.

Yes isolation & mass are your friends. Anything you can do to add mass to the outer walls will help keep the sound in, and drywall/insulation is cheap (it's the finish work that costs). A finished garage interior is always a nice touch on a home as well.
 
RF, before you decide on full room-in-a-room construction check this thread

http://www.homer.com.au/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=86&start=0

Specifically the charts John posted on Mar 01, and my comments on Mar 17 (the second post on Mar 17, mainly)

Also, what's UNDER the stucco on the outside wall (what do you see when looking at the inside, between the studs?)

Have you watched a Sound Level Meter, set on "C" weighting/fast response, while playing your drums?

Before you can decide how/what to build, you need to know how loud the source is, and how quiet at what distance it NEEDS to be... Steve
 
Thanks Steve! I'll check the link ina moment.... In the mean time, I'll answer your questions.

Looking at the stucco wall from the inside, I see old torn construction paper (place was built in 1947) over what appears to be 1x6 siding. The 2x4's are real 2x4's as opposed to today's smaller sized 2x4. That's all as of now. That's the entire makeup of the garage walls. The roof appears to be the same. All joists and studs are 24"oc. The garage is detached and is 14' wide by 20' long. I have one neighbor about 20' feet away from the large garage door.

I've never measured the loudness of my playing but here's an example of my luck: About ten years ago, we were playing as we usually do until the cops showed up. The cop says that they received a complaint from the lady behind us to the left (aprrox. 80 feet away). After the cop left, I went to the lady's house to give her my number so she could call us instead of the cops. To my Murphy's Fuckin' Law surprise, I found that the lady was actually deaf!! I had to write down why we were there. She wrote back "Sorry I had to call the police but I didn't have your number!"

To make a long story short, I have shit ass luck and I don't want to go through that shit again. I don't know if that's relevent to your metering question but that's why I'm so gungho on soundPROOFING.

Okay... I'm off to read your links!
Thanks,
RF
 
Back in the "BPW" days (Before Ply Wood) that's the way they built houses. Usually there were 1x lumber diagonals "let into" the frames at corners for lateral strength - plywood made that unnecessary.

I had a house several years ago that had real redwood 2" x 4" 2x4's.

There's a real good chance that the 1x6 siding you're looking at is what they call "ship lap" or lap siding. It was made to keep the cracks from showing clear through. It was shaped, looking at it from the end, like the drawing I've posted. (oops, forgot to attach, here it is)

If that's what you have (or not) you would need to caulk EVERY crack in it before putting anything else on the wall - then, a couple layers of 5/8 sheet rock snugly between each pair of studs, caulked at the edges and screwed (not glued) in place. Be sure not to use too long screws, especially for the first inside layer - you don't want the screws to penetrate into the stucco or beyond.

Then, if you have the room, 6" steel drywall stud frame, filled with rockwool, resilient channel screwed to that (at 90 degrees) on 12" centers, and 2-3 layers of 5/8 sheet rock on the channel. There are several wrong ways to do the resilient channel, which we can get into also.

You will want to order REAL Acoustic-rated caulk for ALL this project, probably online unless you're luckier than most. The real stuff usually comes in 29 oz tubes and costs about $7.50 a tube - it's actually cheaper than good Home Depot non-acoustic stuff, because theirs are 10 oz cartridges. You'll need a pro caulk gun that handles the big tubes.

There is only one best use of mass in a sound wall, and that is to have only two centers of mass with only one air space. The more mass, the higher the isolation. The wider the air space, the higher the isolation. Adding insulation to the air space helps by anywhere from 3 to 8 dB, occasionally a little more. DeCoupling the two mass centers with Resilient Channel, or at least flimsy steel drywall studs, can add 5-10 dB to wall performance.

Doing ALL the above and leaving a 1/64" crack 4-5 feet long will cost you around 15 dB of isolation, so attention to detail is CRUCIAL.

There is a lot more to it, but this should be a good start... Steve
 
Here tiz...
 

Attachments

  • shiplap.webp
    shiplap.webp
    1.6 KB · Views: 130
M.Brane said:
I think I may have a SoCal connection on this stuff.

CWCI in the City of Industry sells rigid fiberglass insulation.
(626)369-4424

I think they even stock the 1" and 2" thick 2'x4' panels.

I'm also working with a local Lowes. I think I can order the Johns Manville equivalent product through them.

Ethan Winer sells it on the web at his site: realtraps.com, but shipping is expensive - this stuff is heavy! :)

-lee-
 
hey Rush

I had the same problem. I finally went to owens web site and called 800-get-pink, cool name huh.
If you tell them you are looking for a supplier they will give you a number to the person who covers your area. Call that number and you can find out where to get the 703. I found that it will cost me 8.11 per piece of 2'x4'.

good luck
Brian
 
Steve,
You're right about the design of the siding. It is in fact lap siding. One thing I'm not totally clear on is the part about putting drywall between the pair of studs. You're simply saying to cut the drywall to approx 22" to fit between the studs and against the lap siding? Would it be a waste to put up new construction paper as well.

I'm hoping for a 2 room setup (control room & drum/live room). With the dimesnions given, do I have the space?

Thanks,
RF
 
"You're simply saying to cut the drywall to approx 22" to fit between the studs and against the lap siding? "

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying - you want more mass in the outer leaf of the wall (where the stucco is), then you want as much air space (with insulation, it's still acting as air space but with better Transmission Loss)

"Would it be a waste to put up new construction paper as well." -

No, in fact it would be a good idea. you will need a good vapor barrier , and since the sheet rock needs to be kept dry, I would put Tyvek house wrap between the studs before adding the two layers of sheet rock up against the outer lap siding. You could then put standard fiberglas insulation between what's left of the studs, move in at least 4 inches, and put up a steel stud wall with RC on the studs horizontally, then at least two layers of sheet rock on the RC. Do NOT put any paneling whatsoever on the INSIDE of the steel stud frame. Remember, only TWO centers of mass (leaves) and only ONE air space.

If possible, don't break either wall surface for electrical - running surface mount boxes and wire mold will keep the TL of the wall better.

When building ALL of this, think like you're in a submarine and don't want to drown. The least little (and I mean REALLY little) crack will screw up most of your soundproofing attempts, so caulk EVERYTHING. The ideal wall is two layers of mass, totally isolated from each other, and totally un-broken. The closer you get to this, the better the TL.

If you can't find the REAL acoustic-rated caulk locally, post back - I have links to online purchase of both the 1 quart tubes of caulk, and the contractor caulk gun you need to put it down. Do NOT, repeat NOT, use butyl or silicone caulk that isn't acoustic rated. That stuff costs $3-$5 a tube for 10 oz, and the acoustic stuff, even online, is only $7.50 a tube for 29 oz - that works out to about $2.50 a tube if you were using the 10 oz. I just talked to a guy in San Diego yesterday, and his local Home Depot had RC (mine doesn't) he also was able to find a commercial insulation place that carried the acoustic caulk in 29 oz tubes for $3 a tube.

Remember, the absolute best use of materials you can get is to use ALL the mass in only TWO leaves, inner and outer, with only ONE air space. The more mass in the leaves, the better the Transmission Loss (TL for short) - The wider the AIR gap, the better the TL. Using 3 lb/cu ft density mineral wool in the air gap gives the best overall TL; higher density improves bass blocking some, but at the expense of high freq blocking. Lower density insulation helps highs some, but worsens low freq response. With live drums, you'll want 3 PCF or a little higher. You'll probably have to hit a commercial insulation place for this kind of stuff.

As to space, I doubt if your room is quite big enough for two rooms - I'd see if John can figure anything, he's a wizard at coming up with designs like that... Steve
 
Back
Top